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Post by alwaysorange on Feb 28, 2020 16:27:26 GMT -8
Wow... let's make it simple for you... 10-2 to 15-13/5-11. Excuse away... This is a non sequitur. 15-13. In the past 30 seasons, Oregon State has started 15-13 or better exactly seven times, and a majority of those times have been under Tinkle. Best 28 game starts since 1989-90: 2004-05 8-9 16-12 NIT 2011-12 5-11 15-13 2013-14 7-9 15-13 2014-15 6-10 17-11 2015-16 8-9 17-11 NCAA Tournament 2018-19 10-8 16-12 2019-20 5-11 15-13
Wayne Tinkle has posted the three best 28-game starts and another upper-quarter 28-game start over the past 30 years.
Of course, before 1990-91, the last time that Oregon State started 15-13 or worse? 1976-77, in Ralph Miller's seventh year.
Miller similarly had two years, where he did not achieve 15 wins in his first six seasons (three if you include the forfeits in 1975-76). After his last sub-15-win season in 1973-74, he reeled off 15 consecutive 15+ win seasons. (Or, if you believe in unjust forfeits, after 1975-76, he reeled off 13 consecutive 15+ win seasons.)
My first point is that Tinkle has been light years better than any coach since GP graduated.
My second point is that, if we had fired Miller after he posted four (or three, depending on how you count 1975-76) 15+ seasons and one Tournament berth in his first six seasons, the following 13 seasons of Oregon State basketball dominance probably do not come to pass.
If Oregon State is a train wreck next year, light up the torches by all means.
It's simply too early for me to jump off of the bandwagon.Earth to you: THERE IS NO BANDWAGON
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Post by nabeav on Feb 28, 2020 16:37:23 GMT -8
Listened to the Joe Beaver Show - not one phone call, not even Dave from Twater - the apathy surrounding the basketball team is the worst part of this whole sad collapse. We slap Arizona around, and then go skydiving without a parachute..... You can't call in and complain though. Parker and Warren will cut you off like an umbilical cord. They're only interested in hearing from people with positive takes.
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Post by OSUprof on Feb 28, 2020 16:46:27 GMT -8
Listened to the Joe Beaver Show - not one phone call, not even Dave from Twater - the apathy surrounding the basketball team is the worst part of this whole sad collapse. We slap Arizona around, and then go skydiving without a parachute..... You can't call in and complain though. Parker and Warren will cut you off like an umbilical cord. They're only interested in hearing from people with positive takes. A lot of folks don't seem to know that while we like those guys, they are not independent media. They are paid spokespersons for OSU sports.
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Post by TheGlove on Feb 28, 2020 17:18:30 GMT -8
Wow... let's make it simple for you... 10-2 to 15-13/5-11. Excuse away... This is a non sequitur. 15-13. In the past 30 seasons, Oregon State has started 15-13 or better exactly seven times, and a majority of those times have been under Tinkle. Best 28 game starts since 1989-90: 2004-05 8-9 16-12 NIT 2011-12 5-11 15-13 2013-14 7-9 15-13 2014-15 6-10 17-11 2015-16 8-9 17-11 NCAA Tournament 2018-19 10-8 16-12 2019-20 5-11 15-13
Wayne Tinkle has posted the three best 28-game starts and another upper-quarter 28-game start over the past 30 years.
Of course, before 1990-91, the last time that Oregon State started 15-13 or worse? 1976-77, in Ralph Miller's seventh year.
Miller similarly had two years, where he did not achieve 15 wins in his first six seasons (three if you include the forfeits in 1975-76). After his last sub-15-win season in 1973-74, he reeled off 15 consecutive 15+ win seasons. (Or, if you believe in unjust forfeits, after 1975-76, he reeled off 13 consecutive 15+ win seasons.)
My first point is that Tinkle has been light years better than any coach since GP graduated.
My second point is that, if we had fired Miller after he posted four (or three, depending on how you count 1975-76) 15+ seasons and one Tournament berth in his first six seasons, the following 13 seasons of Oregon State basketball dominance probably do not come to pass.
If Oregon State is a train wreck next year, light up the torches by all means.
It's simply too early for me to jump off of the bandwagon. no one cares about 30 years ago. We care about now and the future.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Feb 28, 2020 17:23:02 GMT -8
This is a non sequitur. 15-13. In the past 30 seasons, Oregon State has started 15-13 or better exactly seven times, and a majority of those times have been under Tinkle. Best 28 game starts since 1989-90: 2004-05 8-9 16-12 NIT 2011-12 5-11 15-13 2013-14 7-9 15-13 2014-15 6-10 17-11 2015-16 8-9 17-11 NCAA Tournament 2018-19 10-8 16-12 2019-20 5-11 15-13
Wayne Tinkle has posted the three best 28-game starts and another upper-quarter 28-game start over the past 30 years.
Of course, before 1990-91, the last time that Oregon State started 15-13 or worse? 1976-77, in Ralph Miller's seventh year.
Miller similarly had two years, where he did not achieve 15 wins in his first six seasons (three if you include the forfeits in 1975-76). After his last sub-15-win season in 1973-74, he reeled off 15 consecutive 15+ win seasons. (Or, if you believe in unjust forfeits, after 1975-76, he reeled off 13 consecutive 15+ win seasons.)
My first point is that Tinkle has been light years better than any coach since GP graduated.
My second point is that, if we had fired Miller after he posted four (or three, depending on how you count 1975-76) 15+ seasons and one Tournament berth in his first six seasons, the following 13 seasons of Oregon State basketball dominance probably do not come to pass.
If Oregon State is a train wreck next year, light up the torches by all means.
It's simply too early for me to jump off of the bandwagon.The past justifies the present and the future? The future justifies the past and present. But the past frames the future. And it is folly (or hubris) to believe that we can beat our past just because. You hope that we can, and you have your reasons. I get it. However, I believe that the rectification of the negatives that you hope to have remedied in a new coach cannot hope to outweigh the deficits that Oregon State currently owns in the current administration, facilities, and support. If we overhaul the administration, increase support, or upgrade facilities (or preferably all three), I would tend to believe that we need to change our coach, in order to maximize the new reality. But we are not there, and I do not know if we are capable of getting there. I think that you have your reasons for thinking that now is the change, but others I believe lack a real appreciation for the god-awful basketball that plagued the Tinkle era. The basketball that I have seen over the past six years is light years better than I saw in the 24 years prior. Whether we can do better is debatable at this point in my mind. My belief is that we are unlikely to improve on Tinkle without overhauling the administration, pumping in a lot more money into facilities, or increasing support. I have no solutions to those sphinx' riddles, so I tend to believe that continuing with Tinkle, at this point, is obvious. Others disagree.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Feb 28, 2020 17:30:36 GMT -8
This is a non sequitur. 15-13. In the past 30 seasons, Oregon State has started 15-13 or better exactly seven times, and a majority of those times have been under Tinkle. Best 28 game starts since 1989-90: 2004-05 8-9 16-12 NIT 2011-12 5-11 15-13 2013-14 7-9 15-13 2014-15 6-10 17-11 2015-16 8-9 17-11 NCAA Tournament 2018-19 10-8 16-12 2019-20 5-11 15-13
Wayne Tinkle has posted the three best 28-game starts and another upper-quarter 28-game start over the past 30 years.
Of course, before 1990-91, the last time that Oregon State started 15-13 or worse? 1976-77, in Ralph Miller's seventh year.
Miller similarly had two years, where he did not achieve 15 wins in his first six seasons (three if you include the forfeits in 1975-76). After his last sub-15-win season in 1973-74, he reeled off 15 consecutive 15+ win seasons. (Or, if you believe in unjust forfeits, after 1975-76, he reeled off 13 consecutive 15+ win seasons.)
My first point is that Tinkle has been light years better than any coach since GP graduated.
My second point is that, if we had fired Miller after he posted four (or three, depending on how you count 1975-76) 15+ seasons and one Tournament berth in his first six seasons, the following 13 seasons of Oregon State basketball dominance probably do not come to pass.
If Oregon State is a train wreck next year, light up the torches by all means.
It's simply too early for me to jump off of the bandwagon.Earth to you: THERE IS NO BANDWAGON Ok, me and the 299 Spartans who show up to all of the home games. I'm not prepared to cede Thermopylae and Southern Greece at this juncture. Feel free to throw in the towel, if you'd like.
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Post by fridaynightlights on Feb 28, 2020 17:56:16 GMT -8
The past justifies the present and the future? The future justifies the past and present. But the past frames the future. And it is folly (or hubris) to believe that we can beat our past just because. You hope that we can, and you have your reasons. I get it. However, I believe that the rectification of the negatives that you hope to have remedied in a new coach cannot hope to outweigh the deficits that Oregon State currently owns in the current administration, facilities, and support. If we overhaul the administration, increase support, or upgrade facilities (or preferably all three), I would tend to believe that we need to change our coach, in order to maximize the new reality. But we are not there, and I do not know if we are capable of getting there. I think that you have your reasons for thinking that now is the change, but others I believe lack a real appreciation for the god-awful basketball that plagued the Tinkle era. The basketball that I have seen over the past six years is light years better than I saw in the 24 years prior. Whether we can do better is debatable at this point in my mind. My belief is that we are unlikely to improve on Tinkle without overhauling the administration, pumping in a lot more money into facilities, or increasing support. I have no solutions to those sphinx' riddles, so I tend to believe that continuing with Tinkle, at this point, is obvious. Others disagree. Wayne Tinkle's record at Oregon State: Career record overall: 90 - 96 Conference record overall: 40 - 66 Craig Robinson's record at Oregon State Career record overall: 93 - 104 Conference record overall: 39 - 69 You obviously have a different definition of light years better then I do.
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Post by Judge Smails on Feb 28, 2020 18:45:40 GMT -8
This is a non sequitur. 15-13. In the past 30 seasons, Oregon State has started 15-13 or better exactly seven times, and a majority of those times have been under Tinkle. Best 28 game starts since 1989-90: 2004-05 8-9 16-12 NIT 2011-12 5-11 15-13 2013-14 7-9 15-13 2014-15 6-10 17-11 2015-16 8-9 17-11 NCAA Tournament 2018-19 10-8 16-12 2019-20 5-11 15-13
Wayne Tinkle has posted the three best 28-game starts and another upper-quarter 28-game start over the past 30 years.
Of course, before 1990-91, the last time that Oregon State started 15-13 or worse? 1976-77, in Ralph Miller's seventh year.
Miller similarly had two years, where he did not achieve 15 wins in his first six seasons (three if you include the forfeits in 1975-76). After his last sub-15-win season in 1973-74, he reeled off 15 consecutive 15+ win seasons. (Or, if you believe in unjust forfeits, after 1975-76, he reeled off 13 consecutive 15+ win seasons.)
My first point is that Tinkle has been light years better than any coach since GP graduated.
My second point is that, if we had fired Miller after he posted four (or three, depending on how you count 1975-76) 15+ seasons and one Tournament berth in his first six seasons, the following 13 seasons of Oregon State basketball dominance probably do not come to pass.
If Oregon State is a train wreck next year, light up the torches by all means.
It's simply too early for me to jump off of the bandwagon.Earth to you: THERE IS NO BANDWAGON The bandwagon is now the Griswold family truckster.
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Post by spudbeaver on Feb 28, 2020 20:53:46 GMT -8
Earth to you: THERE IS NO BANDWAGON The bandwagon is now the Griswold family truckster. Aw, come on! We ordered the sport model!
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Post by mbabeav on Feb 28, 2020 21:40:00 GMT -8
The bandwagon is now the Griswold family truckster. Aw, come on! We ordered the sport model! Ice Blue, baby.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Feb 28, 2020 21:57:32 GMT -8
The future justifies the past and present. But the past frames the future. And it is folly (or hubris) to believe that we can beat our past just because. You hope that we can, and you have your reasons. I get it. However, I believe that the rectification of the negatives that you hope to have remedied in a new coach cannot hope to outweigh the deficits that Oregon State currently owns in the current administration, facilities, and support. If we overhaul the administration, increase support, or upgrade facilities (or preferably all three), I would tend to believe that we need to change our coach, in order to maximize the new reality. But we are not there, and I do not know if we are capable of getting there. I think that you have your reasons for thinking that now is the change, but others I believe lack a real appreciation for the god-awful basketball that plagued the Tinkle era. The basketball that I have seen over the past six years is light years better than I saw in the 24 years prior. Whether we can do better is debatable at this point in my mind. My belief is that we are unlikely to improve on Tinkle without overhauling the administration, pumping in a lot more money into facilities, or increasing support. I have no solutions to those sphinx' riddles, so I tend to believe that continuing with Tinkle, at this point, is obvious. Others disagree. Wayne Tinkle's record at Oregon State: Career record overall: 90 - 96 Conference record overall: 40 - 66 Craig Robinson's record at Oregon State Career record overall: 93 - 104 Conference record overall: 39 - 69 You obviously have a different definition of light years better then I do. This season we have had too many disappointing losses of 10 points plus. In Robinson’s era they were pretty much a routine occurrence. Huge difference in competitiveness despite how close the records are.
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Post by baseba1111 on Feb 28, 2020 23:22:17 GMT -8
Wayne Tinkle's record at Oregon State: Career record overall: 90 - 96 Conference record overall: 40 - 66 Craig Robinson's record at Oregon State Career record overall: 93 - 104 Conference record overall: 39 - 69 You obviously have a different definition of light years better then I do. This season we have had too many disappointing losses of 10 points plus. In Robinson’s era they were pretty much a routine occurrence. Huge difference in competitiveness despite how close the records are. A quick count... could be off a bit, but both are basically the same. So, 10+ point losses... CR 50 WT 45 20+ point losses: CR 11 WT 13 Really can't get two noncompetitive coaches much closer! We're not done with season 6...
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Post by beaverinohio on Feb 29, 2020 1:09:24 GMT -8
This team screwed the pooch early on (a trend with Robinson and Tinkle teams) with losses to Texas A&M (NET# 116), Cal (NET# 142), UW (NET# 63), and WSU (NET# 120), those were all games where we've seen veteran players step up in the past (Payton I, Payton II, Ortiz, etc.) and lead their team to a win. You have to go 3-1 or 2-2 at a minimum in those games, 0-4 is completely unacceptable for a team with the veterans that OSU had coming back. Those games told me this team lacked leadership. And moving the 3-pt line back hurt OSU more than other teams, as shown by OSU's abysmal shooting pct. Tinkle is a good, not great, outside shooter...push him a little further out and he really struggles. A&M is not a terrible loss. They had an 0-4 stretch, including going 0-3 at the Orlando Invitational in the five games before Oregon State showed up, which colored the perception that they were some kind of walkover. The Aggies are in the top half of the SEC, including a double-digit win over a Mississippi State team that is on the bubble. I do not know who we wronged at Washington State for them to retire Klay Thompson's jersey, during the Oregon State game. They were averaging about 2,295/game heading into the Beaver game. They retire Thompson's jersey, and 10,380 turn out! They got less than half of that for the Apple Cup game against Washington! The last time that Washington State had that many fans was Thompson's Junior season (he declared after the season ended), when he led the Cougars to an NIT Final Four. Few teams would not have buckled in front of 10,380 in Pullman. Oregon State buckled. It happens. Washington started well (3-point win over Baylor in Alaska and 32-point win against USC), but close losses to Oregon and Utah seem to have broken the team. The Huskies just nipped a nine-game losing streak in the bud (with a 35-point win over California). The Washington team that beat Baylor, USC, Oregon State, and California is not the same team that lost nine straight. The Beavers caught them at the wrong time. California is trash. If the same Oregon State team that beat Stanford had showed up in Berkeley, the Beavers win that game going away. But it is hard to win at Haas, and, for some reason, the Oregon State game was the most-attended game at Haas outside of the Stanford game. Good golly Miss Molly, where to start. First, the original poster didn’t say Texas A&M was a terrible loss. But it was a game the Beavers needed to win if they had any designs on being a good team. So they beat Miss St, Their NET is still south of 100. And look how they lost it. Beavs were up by 8 at half and were out scored 19-42 in second half. OP never called it a “terrible” loss, but I’ll call that a terrible half. Beavs loss to WSU because there was a full stadium? “Few teams would not have buckled? Good lord. This is why these kids go to P5 schools. I guess it is a good thing this team isn’t going to tourney cuz I hear they get some people in the stands for those games. Again another team with NET south of 100 and another loss. You are right that the WA team that beat Baylor and USC isn’t the same team that lost 9 straight, but wrong in case of Oregon St and and Cal. WA lost its PG during or after the USC game. Since they’ve gone 2-12. Beavs are one of only two wins for Huskies during that span. Great chance to get road win against school with lower NET. For Cal you pretty much made the OP’s argument. The team that beat Stanford didn’t show up against Cal. Why? No leadership among players? Bad game plan or in-game adjustments by WT? According to your post it might just be they had to play in front of 6.300 fans. You can try to rationalize away these losses, but the original poster is correct. These were winnable games Beavs had to win if they hoped to go to tourney. And they didn’t win them. And they didn’t lose them because of the administration’s lack of support for the program. The coaching staff and team didn’t get it done. If they had they still might not be on bubble for NCAA but at least they’d be on solid ground for NIT and not in 11th place in conference.
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