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Post by korculabeav on Jan 25, 2020 18:57:26 GMT -8
Beaver basketball, for a long, long time depresses me, and so does this forum/beeotch session. I know you’re all upset, bewildered and pissed, but....... dayem! what should people do? Praise/commend the product on the court when getting hammered by 20?
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Post by nabeav on Jan 26, 2020 10:09:07 GMT -8
Tres and Ethan should be averaging 40 ppg between them. The offense should go through them every time. There are not other viable options. Tres looks like he has gone backwards hard from last year. Bizarre. Tres is actually taking one less shot a game on average than last year. He’s scoring 19.5 a game, down a little over one point a game from last year. He’s turning the ball over less than he ever has. His 3% is significantly up. He’s not going backwards. Our expectations have gone forwards. That’s a good thing and a testament to Tinkle’s program. They have raised the bar for fans to where 12-8 and 2-6 in conference isn’t acceptable anymore. However, I’m not a big fan of firing people after one bad season. The year after we went 1-17 in conference we went 7-11 and then 10-8. The last two weeks suck. Team has looked lifeless and awful. Arizona game we looked like a team on the verge of a top 25 ranking. If you’re emailing the AD after a bad four game stretch, I don’t know what to tell you. Next year is the barometer for me. See how they play when Tinkle is unburdened by players and fans thinking he’s favoring his son. In March 2021 I’ll be ready to say if we need to look for a new coach.
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Post by lebaneaver on Jan 26, 2020 11:41:33 GMT -8
Beaver basketball, for a long, long time depresses me, and so does this forum/beeotch session. I know you’re all upset, bewildered and pissed, but....... dayem! Did you watch the last 4 games? The whole game? I’ll bet not or I think you would understand why it’s like that. Oh, I understand. I just find something else to do, like give myself a root canal. It’s less painful.
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Post by spudbeaver on Jan 26, 2020 11:42:19 GMT -8
Tres and Ethan should be averaging 40 ppg between them. The offense should go through them every time. There are not other viable options. Tres looks like he has gone backwards hard from last year. Bizarre. Tres is actually taking one less shot a game on average than last year. He’s scoring 19.5 a game, down a little over one point a game from last year. He’s turning the ball over less than he ever has. His 3% is significantly up. He’s not going backwards. Our expectations have gone forwards. That’s a good thing and a testament to Tinkle’s program. They have raised the bar for fans to where 12-8 and 2-6 in conference isn’t acceptable anymore. However, I’m not a big fan of firing people after one bad season. The year after we went 1-17 in conference we went 7-11 and then 10-8. The last two weeks suck. Team has looked lifeless and awful. Arizona game we looked like a team on the verge of a top 25 ranking. If you’re emailing the AD after a bad four game stretch, I don’t know what to tell you. Next year is the barometer for me. See how they play when Tinkle is unburdened by players and fans thinking he’s favoring his son. In March 2021 I’ll be ready to say if we need to look for a new coach. Not sure why it comes across like I'm hacking TT, I'm saying we need more of everything from him. He's by far our best player and it's him and Ethan and that's it. But it does seem like he's out of sorts at times. Can't imagine anyone here, or he himself said "I can't wait to come back next year. I hope I average one point less than this season." Of course our expectations have gone up. He's a great player and a senior. It's a natural assumption that good players get better year over year.
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Post by zeroposter on Jan 26, 2020 12:46:17 GMT -8
Tres is actually taking one less shot a game on average than last year. He’s scoring 19.5 a game, down a little over one point a game from last year. He’s turning the ball over less than he ever has. His 3% is significantly up. He’s not going backwards. Our expectations have gone forwards. That’s a good thing and a testament to Tinkle’s program. They have raised the bar for fans to where 12-8 and 2-6 in conference isn’t acceptable anymore. However, I’m not a big fan of firing people after one bad season. The year after we went 1-17 in conference we went 7-11 and then 10-8. The last two weeks suck. Team has looked lifeless and awful. Arizona game we looked like a team on the verge of a top 25 ranking. If you’re emailing the AD after a bad four game stretch, I don’t know what to tell you. Next year is the barometer for me. See how they play when Tinkle is unburdened by players and fans thinking he’s favoring his son. In March 2021 I’ll be ready to say if we need to look for a new coach. Not sure why it comes across like I'm hacking TT, I'm saying we need more of everything from him. He's by far our best player and it's him and Ethan and that's it. But it does seem like he's out of sorts at times. Can't imagine anyone here, or he himself said "I can't wait to come back next year. I hope I average one point less than this season." Of course our expectations have gone up. He's a great player and a senior. It's a natural assumption that good players get better year over year. Last season, there were 3 guys who could score. This year, defense is really easy: stop Tres and stop the Beavers. Give Ethan a few shots and worry about Reichle if he is hot, but just slow down Tres. Another scorer and TT would have better stats.
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Post by baseba1111 on Jan 26, 2020 12:54:30 GMT -8
Tres and Ethan should be averaging 40 ppg between them. The offense should go through them every time. There are not other viable options. Tres looks like he has gone backwards hard from last year. Bizarre. Tres is actually taking one less shot a game on average than last year. He’s scoring 19.5 a game, down a little over one point a game from last year. He’s turning the ball over less than he ever has. His 3% is significantly up. He’s not going backwards. Our expectations have gone forwards. That’s a good thing and a testament to Tinkle’s program. They have raised the bar for fans to where 12-8 and 2-6 in conference isn’t acceptable anymore. However, I’m not a big fan of firing people after one bad season. The year after we went 1-17 in conference we went 7-11 and then 10-8. The last two weeks suck. Team has looked lifeless and awful. Arizona game we looked like a team on the verge of a top 25 ranking. If you’re emailing the AD after a bad four game stretch, I don’t know what to tell you. Next year is the barometer for me. See how they play when Tinkle is unburdened by players and fans thinking he’s favoring his son. In March 2021 I’ll be ready to say if we need to look for a new coach. Well he has gone backwards significantly on the road... just looking at 3 pt% there is a 29% disparity (before last night) home and away. BUT... the issue is and has never been TT. I'm not of the same mind as some that stats alone make you a great player. Hell... Yesterday I saw 5 better "basketball players" on SC than TT that will never have the stats he has/will have. BUT... again him being a GREAT player is a completely separate issue and total opinion based depending on a person viewpoint. The issue is the state of OSU's program... and for me it is secondary to the record... although 37-61 in Pac12 play helps prove the point. Recruiting has and is terrible. If you count KK (who I do not... potential means zero and he certainly doesn't live up to what he should be like) and Drew, that is (2) recruits who have panned out to be consistent Pac12 caliber contributors over their careers. TWO... that are not sons. Could some of the frosh? Maybe but, they'd have to show a LOT of development in the next two seasons. Which almost none have in WT's time here. Look at those who have left, look at next season's single signing as of now... YIKES. And... you have to love posters who go to "cheating". Yeah every school that gets better recruits is cheating. Sure. And, yep there has been some instances of assistants doing untowardly things, yet as of now punishments have not shown any indication of major recruiting violations effecting teams beating our pants off... on and off the court. So keep believing the WT is the ONLY honest coach out there and is getting screwed by a dirty system! The 5-27/1-17 season is constantly singled out as not counting/an anomaly. Yet, any type of significant recruiting would have mitigated TT's loss. He had a great start, but he in and of himself wasn't going to completely turn that season into something significantly different... in terms of post season play. TT is not an issue... in fact I think he is under performing because he is actually being asked or trying to do too much in direct relation to the poor recruiting and/or player development by his Dad. His trying more is actually less for him and the team. That is a coach issue... and the chicken salad, chicken s%#t (although not that harsh) may apply here in some cases of player development... and it falls directly on the shoulders of WT in those cases. If the "plan" by the AD is a shuffling of the MBB staff in the off season it is a sure sign to me. In most cases it is simply a way to stave off the inevitable. This is a HC issue not his assistants... they have not suddenly become inept.
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jbjam
Freshman
Posts: 127
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Post by jbjam on Jan 26, 2020 13:53:34 GMT -8
Next year is the barometer for me. See how they play when Tinkle is unburdened by players and fans thinking he’s favoring his son. In March 2021 I’ll be ready to say if we need to look for a new coach. WT will likely finish the season with a lower conf win % than CR. Why are six years not enough to judge job performance. Shouldn't progress be visible and trending up. I don't see any reason to have hope. Sure would like to be wrong, it's possible. If WT was a stock no way i'd ever invest and no offence, I doubt you would either. I wouldn't take out a nakid short position but i'd purchase put options on the cheap.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Jan 26, 2020 14:25:25 GMT -8
Next year is the barometer for me. See how they play when Tinkle is unburdened by players and fans thinking he’s favoring his son. In March 2021 I’ll be ready to say if we need to look for a new coach. WT will likely finish the season with a lower conf win % than CR. Why are six years not enough to judge job performance. Shouldn't progress be visible and trending up. I don't see any reason to have hope. Sure would like to be wrong, it's possible. If WT was a stock no way i'd ever invest and no offence, I doubt you would either. I wouldn't take out a nakid short position but i'd purchase put options on the cheap. It's extremely hard to compare the league record of WT and CR straight up because the circumstances we so very different. Robinson inherited 3 of Jay John's top 6 scorers and they played for 3 full years under Robinson. Tinkle inherited only one of Robinson's top 6 scorers (and he only average 4.0 a game under Robinson), and zero players that played 3 years. One coach inherited a lot, one inherited a mostly empty cupboard.
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Post by baseba1111 on Jan 26, 2020 15:38:05 GMT -8
WT will likely finish the season with a lower conf win % than CR. Why are six years not enough to judge job performance. Shouldn't progress be visible and trending up. I don't see any reason to have hope. Sure would like to be wrong, it's possible. If WT was a stock no way i'd ever invest and no offence, I doubt you would either. I wouldn't take out a nakid short position but i'd purchase put options on the cheap. It's extremely hard to compare the league record of WT and CR straight up because the circumstances we so very different. Robinson inherited 3 of Jay John's top 6 scorers and they played for 3 full years under Robinson. Tinkle inherited only one of Robinson's top 6 scorers (and he only average 4.0 a game under Robinson), and zero players that played 3 years. One coach inherited a lot, one inherited a mostly empty cupboard. Same fallacy over and over. It's been shown just how vital those CR holdovers were compared to any CR got. Crazy talk. It could actually be argued those CR recruits are better than most WT recruits. Be creative. Come up with new, better excuses. You're better than that. But, your opinion of WT and his tenure is indeed yours and held by others. I simply focus or results not reasons.
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Post by avidbeaver on Jan 26, 2020 17:31:22 GMT -8
You could make an argument that CR was a better recruiter. However, making an argument that CR was a better coach doesn't hold water in my opinion. They appear to be the same.
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Post by beaverstever on Jan 26, 2020 17:52:39 GMT -8
I'm just puzzled how this team can beat UA and Colo, and yet not beat lesser to much lesser teams in conference. My guess is that UA and Colo possibly didn't bother to game-plan OSU, and figured they'd beat them just exerting their will. The other teams focused on making Tres work really hard for his points, and tempting the rest of the team outside of Ethan to beat them, and it's worked.
I haven't really paid that much attention quite frankly, but the dramatic difference in outcomes makes me inclined to believe we're getting out-schemed and we aren't able to counter. When you lack a roster that can hurt you at different spots and/or you don't have a guy that can carry you regardless of the scheme, you aren't that hard to solve.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Jan 26, 2020 18:17:49 GMT -8
It's extremely hard to compare the league record of WT and CR straight up because the circumstances we so very different. Robinson inherited 3 of Jay John's top 6 scorers and they played for 3 full years under Robinson. Tinkle inherited only one of Robinson's top 6 scorers (and he only average 4.0 a game under Robinson), and zero players that played 3 years. One coach inherited a lot, one inherited a mostly empty cupboard. Same fallacy over and over. It's been shown just how vital those CR holdovers were compared to any CR got. Crazy talk. It could actually be argued those CR recruits are better than most WT recruits. Be creative. Come up with new, better excuses. You're better than that. Over and over you've failed to prove your point I guess. Robinson: Year one- Robinson inherited all but a couple players of John's previous team. He inherited all but two of John's top 10 scorers. He didn't inherit Marcell Jones (10.4 points a game) and he didn't inherit Sean Carter (3.3 points a game), and two other guys that played in 10 or fewer games each . His only players season one that weren't John players were Daniel Deane (5.3 points a game), Kevin McShane (0.4 points a game ) and David Sturner, who played a few minutes in 8 games. Kevin and David were John Recriuts. Year two- 2 of his recruits, Jared Cunningham (6.2 points a game) and Joe Burton (4.7 points a game) cracked the top 8. the other 6 were all experienced Jay John players. Year three- Calvin Haynes (9.3 points a game), Omari Johnson (7.2 points a game) and Lathen Wallace (6.9 points a game) , all Jay John players, were still major contributors. Tinkle: Year one- Tinkle inherited a total of 7 scholarship players. He inherited zero of Robinson's top 5 scorers. The top scorer he inherited was Langston-Morris Walker, at all of 4.0 points per game. He took Robinson's bench warmers (plus Gary Payton 2) to a similar but slightly better (17-14 over 16-16) record than Robinson got with kids he'd been grooming for several seasons. Payton was originally a Robinson recruit, but was given the option to have his scholarship released when Robinson was released. Year two- The top four scorers for the year were Payton and 3 true freshmen brought in by Tinkle. Robinson players did play important roles as the 5th starter and as backups (which I've never denied). Year 3- No Robinson players. No Robinson recruits. No upper class leadership players. Zip. Nada. Now you might call that cherry picking for some reason, but you've got to be really cherry picking to come up with anything that can lead to Tinkle inheriting more from Robinson than Robinson inherited from John.
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Post by bennyorange on Jan 27, 2020 9:36:14 GMT -8
Tres and Ethan should be averaging 40 ppg between them. The offense should go through them every time. There are not other viable options. Tres looks like he has gone backwards hard from last year. Bizarre. Tres is actually taking one less shot a game on average than last year. He’s scoring 19.5 a game, down a little over one point a game from last year. He’s turning the ball over less than he ever has. His 3% is significantly up. He’s not going backwards. Our expectations have gone forwards. That’s a good thing and a testament to Tinkle’s program. They have raised the bar for fans to where 12-8 and 2-6 in conference isn’t acceptable anymore. However, I’m not a big fan of firing people after one bad season. The year after we went 1-17 in conference we went 7-11 and then 10-8. The last two weeks suck. Team has looked lifeless and awful. Arizona game we looked like a team on the verge of a top 25 ranking. If you’re emailing the AD after a bad four game stretch, I don’t know what to tell you. Next year is the barometer for me. See how they play when Tinkle is unburdened by players and fans thinking he’s favoring his son. In March 2021 I’ll be ready to say if we need to look for a new coach. He's turning the ball over less than he ever has Seems like he gets it slapped away any time he approaches the key to me.
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Post by baseba1111 on Jan 27, 2020 13:13:24 GMT -8
Tres is actually taking one less shot a game on average than last year. He’s scoring 19.5 a game, down a little over one point a game from last year. He’s turning the ball over less than he ever has. His 3% is significantly up. He’s not going backwards. Our expectations have gone forwards. That’s a good thing and a testament to Tinkle’s program. They have raised the bar for fans to where 12-8 and 2-6 in conference isn’t acceptable anymore. However, I’m not a big fan of firing people after one bad season. The year after we went 1-17 in conference we went 7-11 and then 10-8. The last two weeks suck. Team has looked lifeless and awful. Arizona game we looked like a team on the verge of a top 25 ranking. If you’re emailing the AD after a bad four game stretch, I don’t know what to tell you. Next year is the barometer for me. See how they play when Tinkle is unburdened by players and fans thinking he’s favoring his son. In March 2021 I’ll be ready to say if we need to look for a new coach. He's turning the ball over less than he ever has Seems like he gets it slapped away any time he approaches the key to me. Depending on how you want to look at it. Obviously TT is OSU's best player, but I really do not care what happens versus a weak NC schedule. WHat is going on in Pac12 play. In that regard Tres is significantly down from last season 8 games in... MP 2pt % 3pt % FT % Reb A TO Pt/g '18-19... 37.1... 49.0%... 36.4%... 80.2%... 7.8... 3.8... 3.0... 21.4 '19-20... 37.6... 38.1%... 27.5%... 89.6%... 6.4... 2.9... 1.9... 18.0 Ethan: '18-19... 34.7... 43.7%... 35.7%... 79.2%... 4.5... 4.9... 2.3... 14.5 '19-20... 37.6... 52.6%... 25.9%... 76.2%... 3.9... 3.9... 3.1... 15.1 Kylor: '18-19... 24.4... 64.4%... 0.00%... 61.3%... 3.8... 0.4... 0.9... 7.6 '19-20... 30.1... 53.1%... 0.00%... 50.0%... 5.3... 1.0... 0.6... 10.5 As a team conference info is not great in key areas: Pts/game... 68.5 (7th) FGM/game... 23.6 (7th) FGA/game... 53.3 (11th)FG %... 44.4 (4th) 3ptM/g... 4.8 (10th) 3ptA/g... 17.1 (11th) 3pt %... 27.7 (11th)FTM/game... 16.5 (2nd) FTA/game... 21.5 (3rd) FT %... 76.7 (1st) Off Reb/g... 8.9 (11th) Def Reb/g... 21.1 (12th) Tot Reb/g... 30.0 (12th)TO's/g... 10.8 (1st) Pts allowed... 73.3 (10th) Opp FG %... 48.2 (10th) Opp3pt %... 37.7 (11th)Home Attend... 5085 (9th)
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jan 27, 2020 16:16:18 GMT -8
He's turning the ball over less than he ever has Seems like he gets it slapped away any time he approaches the key to me. Depending on how you want to look at it. Obviously TT is OSU's best player, but I really do not care what happens versus a weak NC schedule. WHat is going on in Pac12 play. In that regard Tres is significantly down from last season 8 games in... MP 2pt % 3pt % FT % Reb A TO Pt/g '18-19... 37.1... 49.0%... 36.4%... 80.2%... 7.8... 3.8... 3.0... 21.4 '19-20... 37.6... 38.1%... 27.5%... 89.6%... 6.4... 2.9... 1.9... 18.0 Ethan: '18-19... 34.7... 43.7%... 35.7%... 79.2%... 4.5... 4.9... 2.3... 14.5 '19-20... 37.6... 52.6%... 25.9%... 76.2%... 3.9... 3.9... 3.1... 15.1 Kylor: '18-19... 24.4... 64.4%... 0.00%... 61.3%... 3.8... 0.4... 0.9... 7.6 '19-20... 30.1... 53.1%... 0.00%... 50.0%... 5.3... 1.0... 0.6... 10.5 As a team conference info is not great in key areas: Pts/game... 68.5 (7th) FGM/game... 23.6 (7th) FGA/game... 53.3 (11th)FG %... 44.4 (4th) 3ptM/g... 4.8 (10th) 3ptA/g... 17.1 (11th) 3pt %... 27.7 (11th)FTM/game... 16.5 (2nd) FTA/game... 21.5 (3rd) FT %... 76.7 (1st) Off Reb/g... 8.9 (11th) Def Reb/g... 21.1 (12th) Tot Reb/g... 30.0 (12th)TO's/g... 10.8 (1st) Pts allowed... 73.3 (10th) Opp FG %... 48.2 (10th) Opp3pt %... 37.7 (11th)Home Attend... 5085 (9th) Where are you getting your stats? Pts/G is bad. However, you can congeal the next nine stats down into one, Pts/FGA. Oregon State is second in Pts/Attempt: .843 Pts/FGA. And the Beavers are first in turnovers committed, and it is not even close. The difference between #1 Oregon State and #2 Oregon is the same chasm as the difference between #2 Oregon and #8 California. The rebounding statistics are misleading, because they lack context. Off Reb/G Allowed: 7.9 (3rd) Def Reb/G Allowed: 23.4 (5th) Overall, Oregon State grabs 27.6% of offensive rebounds, which ranks ninth, and 72.8% of defensive rebounds, which ranks sixth. I would like to run the offensive rebound numbers through to compare them to missed three pointers to see, if there is any statistical significance. I will note that Tinkle's teams tend to take too many three pointers from the middle of court. Those misses tend to be harder for the offense to rebound than shots from the corners. Wing play tends to be very poor, as you highlight. Still, the team generally blocks out on the defensive side like you would expect. Another statistic: TO forced: 10.9 (12th)
Oregon State is very good at holding on to the ball, but is bad at forcing turnovers and also bad in transition. Part of that is erratic guard play and a lack of leadership at the guard position.
You point out great numbers at the very end. Defense has been bad. Opponents' shooting percentage is high and Opponents' three-point percentage is even higher.
It is like the football team. All offense and no defense.
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