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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2019 6:41:11 GMT -8
Pushed the lead to about 20 early 2nd half then apparently went into cruise control and it got way to close for comfort... gotta clean that up. Rebounding not great, free throw shooting remains not so great... But I remain pretty impressed with our overall ball movement and shooting. mostly. We shot like 55% or so (not bothering to look it up right now). Kelley has had a bad pair of games. He needs to get back in his groove. And yes, Tinkle is still the best player in the Pac... ahem. No question Tinkle is the best player in the Pac 12. He could have easily scored 30 or 35 yesterday but he passed up numerous shots trying to get everyone involved. As for giving up offensive rebounds, part of the problem the best shot blocker in the country is, well, trying to block shots. He's flying at guys instead of positioning for the misses. That's one thing. The other problem is when you play a lot of zone you don't always have a body to block out. And i think the D has been good, so its a problem, yeah, but its partly a function of what the beavs do well.
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Post by Judge Smails on Dec 2, 2019 6:47:29 GMT -8
Pushed the lead to about 20 early 2nd half then apparently went into cruise control and it got way to close for comfort... gotta clean that up. Rebounding not great, free throw shooting remains not so great... But I remain pretty impressed with our overall ball movement and shooting. mostly. We shot like 55% or so (not bothering to look it up right now). Kelley has had a bad pair of games. He needs to get back in his groove. And yes, Tinkle is still the best player in the Pac... ahem. No question Tinkle is the best player in the Pac 12. He could have easily scored 30 or 35 yesterday but he passed up numerous shots trying to get everyone involved. As for giving up offensive rebounds, part of the problem the best shot blocker in the country is, well, trying to block shots. He's flying at guys instead of positioning for the misses. That's one thing. The other problem is when you play a lot of zone you don't always have a body to block out. And i think the D has been good, so its a problem, yeah, but its partly a function of what the beavs do well. Agree with your shot blocker comment, but we only played zone for a few possessions yesterday and we haven’t played it a whole lot all year. Yesterday, there were just a couple 1-3-1 possessions and a couple of match up zone possessions, but it was mostly man to man.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2019 7:02:54 GMT -8
No question Tinkle is the best player in the Pac 12. He could have easily scored 30 or 35 yesterday but he passed up numerous shots trying to get everyone involved. As for giving up offensive rebounds, part of the problem the best shot blocker in the country is, well, trying to block shots. He's flying at guys instead of positioning for the misses. That's one thing. The other problem is when you play a lot of zone you don't always have a body to block out. And i think the D has been good, so its a problem, yeah, but its partly a function of what the beavs do well. Agree with your shot blocker comment, but we only played zone for a few possessions yesterday and we haven’t played it a whole lot all year. Yesterday, there were just a couple 1-3-1 possessions and a couple of match up zone possessions, but it was mostly man to man. I don't know, maybe but the beavs do so much switching on D it doesnt look like man to man. In any event, most offensive rebounds, not the long caroms, should go to the defensive player if he blocks out because he is already closer to the ball as it comes off.
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Post by beavs6 on Dec 2, 2019 8:13:08 GMT -8
Part of the rebounding problem yesterday was from about the 12 minute mark in the 2nd half on, the Beavers didn't "Want it". They looked uninspired and PSU was flying to the ball. No excuses. They (OSU) beat a team they should have and are off to the best team start since what...19889-90 or something like that.
Ask Duke...or Kentucky (No, I'm not saying OSU is on their level) if they would like do-over. It happens in hoops more than football. It happens in baseball more than basketball.
A loss would have been TERRIBLE for trying to get into the the Dance. Come March, a close win at home to PSU will be *meh*.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2019 8:30:27 GMT -8
Part of the rebounding problem yesterday was from about the 12 minute mark in the 2nd half on, the Beavers didn't "Want it". They looked uninspired and PSU was flying to the ball. No excuses. They (OSU) beat a team they should have and are off to the best team start since what...19889-90 or something like that. Ask Duke...or Kentucky (No, I'm not saying OSU is on their level) if they would like do-over. It happens in hoops more than football. It happens in baseball more than basketball. A loss would have been TERRIBLE for trying to get into the the Dance. Come March, a close win at home to PSU will be *meh*. Yes as PSU edged back into it, playing out of their minds, it occured to me this is a loss that would knock OSU out of tourney consideration unless they win all the rest of their OOC games and win 11 or more pac 12 games. As a win it doesnt do anything but as a loss it's disastrous. It's easier to play inspired for a big win than to crush an upstart but that lack of intensity made it a close game. Should not have been.
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Post by sagebrush on Dec 2, 2019 8:32:23 GMT -8
"The other problem is when you play a lot of zone you don't always have a body to block out."
Bingo!!! In zone you are defending an area. Hard to box out air. In man, the shot goes up, the first thing you do is put a body on the guy you are guarding, then go for the ball. The great Bill Russell once said that you know everyone has done a good job of rebounding when you get a rebound you don't have to jump for.
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Post by baseba1111 on Dec 2, 2019 11:14:09 GMT -8
Hmmm... OSU has played lots of zone... this year and in seasons past. They have to. This is not a team that can guard m2m extensively without foul trouble. Even vs inferior teams OSU had difficulty playing m2m. PSU was at the rim... at will... even with the smallest guy on the court. Depending on which of the multiple sites you want to look, OSU has played the weakest schedule of any Pac12 team and it only gets worse.
Secondly, for those that have coached at any kind of competitive level (not a slam on those posters who have not, but rebounding poorly out of a zone is a myth), rebounding out of a zone is no different that rebounding out of m2m. If you are playing zone correctly players are constantly matching up and using m2m principles. Players still have to find a man to block out in either instance. Opposing players just aren't standing there avaialble to block out in either case... they are moving and have to be located. In m2m players are using zone techniques to help, and get to the "wall' on the weak side. In zone you are still supposed to jump the cutters, still get to help side, you still favor passing lanes, you still match up with guys in the post.
Some teams suck at playing zone. If they do they most likely suck playing m2m. The principles of each defense overlap a great deal and that includes rebounding. In either case you need to find a player and body up. In either case you have to "FIND" them. In m2m it is not alsways "your man". In either case all (5) players need to play a complete possession and not give long rebounds away. As of now OSU is a fairly poor defensive team and lack any depth in the post vs atheltic teams. Silva, Dastrup (maybe sick?) never left the bench vs PSU. And, would have been lost trying to guard PSU's quickness if they had. KK is being asked to do too much, and eventually TT will fall victim to too many minutes and having to help on D too much on help D. He probably should have had 3-4 fouls yesterday, but I think two went to another Beaver.
The rebounding issue I observe is more the willingness of players other than KK and TT to get dirty. Hollins has improved a ton in helping inside but, he is often out of position because of poor D and is going over the back... which he'll pay for in Pac12 play with better opponents. OSU just doesn't rebound as a team on most possessions. Long rebounds aren't automatic to the shooting team if your wings and guards are playing a complete possession.
If I had to make a prediction after 8 games, the Beavers finish 6th or 7th, 7-11 to 9-9. Their NC schedule does nothing to prep them for Pac12 play. They've beat one team with a winning record (think Iowa St is now 4-3?), beaten teams that are like 16-32 overall, and not played great D doing so. It may be somewhat similar to football where we are going to try to outscore people with the D side lacking/inconsistent for 40 minutes. I think TT, ET offer some consistent fire power, but not sure their FG% can stay up. Hollins improved, but he'll be facing some very high caliber players, as will ZR.... will they be able to average 19 pts/game between them? KK just will not get help in the middle and will have to focus on staying out of foul trouble. Giving TT and ET 40 pts/game (ave 36 pts/game now vs this schedule) when TT will be a huge focus for opponents, can the others give 30pts/game and will the D make that stand (giving up 66 pts/game to this schedule and only +1 in reb margin)?
Again, the last 4 games are very bad teams overall and will not prep this team for a hostile opening trip to the mountains.
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Post by Judge Smails on Dec 2, 2019 11:23:20 GMT -8
Hmmm... OSU has played lots of zone... this year and in seasons past. They have to. This is not a team that can guard m2m extensively without foul trouble. Even vs inferior teams OSU had difficulty playing m2m. PSU was at the rim... at will... even with the smallest guy on the court. Depending on which of the multiple sites you want to look, OSU has played the weakest schedule of any Pac12 team and it only gets worse. Secondly, for those that have coached at any kind of comeptitive level, rebounding out of a zone is no different that rebounding out of m2m. If you are playing zone correctly players are constantly matching up, you still have to find a man to block out in either instance. Opposing players just aren;t standing there avaialble to block out in either case. In m2m players are using zone techniques to help, and get to the 'wall' on the weak side. In zone you are still supposed to jump the cutters, you still get to help side, you still favor passing lanes, you still match up with guys in the post. Some teams suck at playing zone. If they do they most likely suck playing m2m. The principles of each defense overlap a great deal and that includes rebounding. In either case you need to find a player and body up. In either case you have to "FIND" them. In m2m it is not alsways "your man". As of now OSU is a poor defensive team and lack any depth in the post vs atheltic teams. Silva, Dastrup (maybe sick?) never left the bench. And, would have been lost trying to guard PSU's quickness if they had. KK is being asked to do too much, and eventually TT will fall victim to too many minutes and having to help on D too much. The rebounding issue I observe is more the willingness of players other than KK and TT to get dirty. Hollins has imporved a ton in helping inside but, he is often out of position because of poor D and is going over the back... which he'll pay for in Pac12 play with better opponents. OSU just doesn't rebound as a team on most possessions. Long rebounds are automatic to the shooting team if your wings and guards are playing a complete possession. If I had to make a prediction after 8 games, the Beavers finish 6th or 7th, 7-11 to 9-9. Their NC schedule does nothing to prep them for Pac12 play. They've beat one team with a winning record (think Iowa St is now 4-3?), beaten teams that are like 16-32 overall, and not played great D doing so. It may be somewhat similar to football where we are going to try to outscore people with the D side lacking/inconsistent for 40 minutes. I think TT, ET offer some consistent fire power, but not sure their FG% can stay up. Hollins improved, but he'll be facing some very high caliber players, as will ZR.... will they be able to average 19 pts/game between them? KK just will not get help in the middle and will have to focus on staying out of foul trouble. Giving TT and ET 40 pts/game (ave 36 pts/game now vs this schedule) when TT will be a huge focus for opponents, can the others give 30pts/game and will the D make that stand (giving up 66 pts/game to this schedule and only +1 in reb margin)? Again, the last 4 games are very bad teams overall and will not prep this team for a hostile opening trip to the mountains. They did not play a lot of zone yesterday. Also, KK's rebounding numbers are terrible for a player of his size. Of course a lot of times he is out of position because he is going for the block. I was wondering if he was sick yesterday. He got a lot of blocks, but he looked gassed and was not working particularly hard to get open on the block. They have to do a better job on rotation to get rebounds. When KK goes for the block they need a weak side defender to pick up his man and box him out. Of course having either Hollins or Tres playing the 4 is not going to help the rebounding issues for this team. Both are undersized for that position.
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Post by beaverbeliever71 on Dec 2, 2019 11:32:16 GMT -8
Again, the last 4 games are very bad teams overall and will not prep this team for a hostile opening trip to the mountains. Guess we will see after they actually play the games on the mountain trip.. easy to say now that it wont help or they wont win those games.. but lets be honest.. you have no idea what will happen.. Its like complaining about the lesser opponents OSU is playing and how they are getting open shots and saying that PAC 12 teams will make those shots.. you don't know that.
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Post by baseba1111 on Dec 2, 2019 11:40:13 GMT -8
Again, the last 4 games are very bad teams overall and will not prep this team for a hostile opening trip to the mountains. Guess we will see after they actually play the games on the mountain trip.. easy to say now that it wont help or they wont win those games.. but lets be honest.. you have no idea what will happen.. Its like complaining about the lesser opponents OSU is playing and how they are getting open shots and saying that PAC 12 teams will make those shots.. you don't know that. It's called an opinion... it's about 95% of what is posted. but, of course you know that yet still post ^^. Let's just say, playing weaker (multiple) oppponents doesn't help a team trying to get over the hump. Not physically or in the eyes of those that will chose the tourney field. Not opinion.
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Post by beaverbeliever71 on Dec 2, 2019 11:44:53 GMT -8
Guess we will see after they actually play the games on the mountain trip.. easy to say now that it wont help or they wont win those games.. but lets be honest.. you have no idea what will happen.. Its like complaining about the lesser opponents OSU is playing and how they are getting open shots and saying that PAC 12 teams will make those shots.. you don't know that. It's called an opinion... it's about 95% of what is posted. but, of course you know that yet still post ^^. I know its opinion.. but its that stuff right there. the tone of your posts.. you come off as a know it all and still have to jab at other posters when they have different opinion.. and yes I know.. you will probably post that i am doing the same thing
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Post by baseba1111 on Dec 2, 2019 11:46:43 GMT -8
It's called an opinion... it's about 95% of what is posted. but, of course you know that yet still post ^^. I know its opinion.. but its that stuff right there. the tone of your posts.. you come off as a know it all and still have to jab at other posters when they have different opinion I beleive I returned a jab. As weak as it was... but, your welcome.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2019 11:49:36 GMT -8
I know its opinion.. but its that stuff right there. the tone of your posts.. you come off as a know it all and still have to jab at other posters when they have different opinion I beleive I returned a jab. As weak as it was... but, your welcome. You won't beat baseball at this he's got a high motor for bitchery
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Post by beaverbeliever71 on Dec 2, 2019 11:56:43 GMT -8
I know its opinion.. but its that stuff right there. the tone of your posts.. you come off as a know it all and still have to jab at other posters when they have different opinion I beleive I returned a jab. As weak as it was... but, your welcome. Had fun with the back and forth but got better things to do.. we good?
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Post by beavs6 on Dec 2, 2019 20:23:50 GMT -8
Hmmm... OSU has played lots of zone... this year and in seasons past. They have to. This is not a team that can guard m2m extensively without foul trouble. Even vs inferior teams OSU had difficulty playing m2m. PSU was at the rim... at will... even with the smallest guy on the court. Depending on which of the multiple sites you want to look, OSU has played the weakest schedule of any Pac12 team and it only gets worse. Secondly, for those that have coached at any kind of competitive level (not a slam on those posters who have not, but rebounding poorly out of a zone is a myth), rebounding out of a zone is no different that rebounding out of m2m. If you are playing zone correctly players are constantly matching up and using m2m principles. Players still have to find a man to block out in either instance. Opposing players just aren't standing there avaialble to block out in either case... they are moving and have to be located. In m2m players are using zone techniques to help, and get to the "wall' on the weak side. In zone you are still supposed to jump the cutters, still get to help side, you still favor passing lanes, you still match up with guys in the post. Some teams suck at playing zone. If they do they most likely suck playing m2m. The principles of each defense overlap a great deal and that includes rebounding. In either case you need to find a player and body up. In either case you have to "FIND" them. In m2m it is not alsways "your man". In either case all (5) players need to play a complete possession and not give long rebounds away. As of now OSU is a fairly poor defensive team and lack any depth in the post vs atheltic teams. Silva, Dastrup (maybe sick?) never left the bench vs PSU. And, would have been lost trying to guard PSU's quickness if they had. KK is being asked to do too much, and eventually TT will fall victim to too many minutes and having to help on D too much on help D. He probably should have had 3-4 fouls yesterday, but I think two went to another Beaver. The rebounding issue I observe is more the willingness of players other than KK and TT to get dirty. Hollins has improved a ton in helping inside but, he is often out of position because of poor D and is going over the back... which he'll pay for in Pac12 play with better opponents. OSU just doesn't rebound as a team on most possessions. Long rebounds aren't automatic to the shooting team if your wings and guards are playing a complete possession. If I had to make a prediction after 8 games, the Beavers finish 6th or 7th, 7-11 to 9-9. Their NC schedule does nothing to prep them for Pac12 play. They've beat one team with a winning record (think Iowa St is now 4-3?), beaten teams that are like 16-32 overall, and not played great D doing so. It may be somewhat similar to football where we are going to try to outscore people with the D side lacking/inconsistent for 40 minutes. I think TT, ET offer some consistent fire power, but not sure their FG% can stay up. Hollins improved, but he'll be facing some very high caliber players, as will ZR.... will they be able to average 19 pts/game between them? KK just will not get help in the middle and will have to focus on staying out of foul trouble. Giving TT and ET 40 pts/game (ave 36 pts/game now vs this schedule) when TT will be a huge focus for opponents, can the others give 30pts/game and will the D make that stand (giving up 66 pts/game to this schedule and only +1 in reb margin)? Again, the last 4 games are very bad teams overall and will not prep this team for a hostile opening trip to the mountains. D*ck Buy a vowel or solve the puzzle.🍺
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