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Post by spudbeaver on Mar 1, 2020 8:07:03 GMT -8
I know the season is not over, but just checking back to see if everyone felt this way during the season so far.... "Even if the Beavs don’t get back to the Big Dance – and even if Tres Tinkle doesn’t bring home that Player of the Year trophy – fans of the team should still be able to sit back and enjoy the final season watching their beloved father-son duo." Seriously though, one of the worst pre-season lines I've ever read for any team in any sport. Oh, don’t fool yourself. The season is over.
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Post by treasurevalleybeav on Mar 1, 2020 10:16:53 GMT -8
My hope is he has an actual point guard this year. I thought the offense did better when Antoine was in. Perhaps with a true point guard the offense would look more like it had a plan and some leadership. I'm not trying to knock the Thompson kids, who've been running the point the last few years, I think they are both better fits for the two spot. I'm hoping Antoine, or Gianni IF he's actually better, get the bulk of the time at the point. It seems to me for a long time we've had a lot of "tweeners" on the roster for years now, power forwards playing center, small forwards playing the 4 spot, big off guards playing small forward, off guards playing point. This year's roster looks to me like they could actually play everyone at what would appear to be their natural position for a change. I defend Tinkle a lot, but one of my long term complaints about Tinkle so far has been the lack of a cohesive offense, but it has been getting ever so slowly somewhat better the last two years. The first three years it was burn the clock until there were 5-7 seconds left then 1 or zero passes later shoot it. At least they've been running some obvious pays part time the last two seasons, although they've reverted to the slow the play down then shoot tactic a lot still. I think a solid point guard could make a big difference here. Hopefully we've got one. He has TWO and his refusal to use them is one of his great shortcomings
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Post by alwaysorange on Mar 1, 2020 10:41:23 GMT -8
My hope is he has an actual point guard this year. I thought the offense did better when Antoine was in. Perhaps with a true point guard the offense would look more like it had a plan and some leadership. I'm not trying to knock the Thompson kids, who've been running the point the last few years, I think they are both better fits for the two spot. I'm hoping Antoine, or Gianni IF he's actually better, get the bulk of the time at the point. It seems to me for a long time we've had a lot of "tweeners" on the roster for years now, power forwards playing center, small forwards playing the 4 spot, big off guards playing small forward, off guards playing point. This year's roster looks to me like they could actually play everyone at what would appear to be their natural position for a change. I defend Tinkle a lot, but one of my long term complaints about Tinkle so far has been the lack of a cohesive offense, but it has been getting ever so slowly somewhat better the last two years. The first three years it was burn the clock until there were 5-7 seconds left then 1 or zero passes later shoot it. At least they've been running some obvious pays part time the last two seasons, although they've reverted to the slow the play down then shoot tactic a lot still. I think a solid point guard could make a big difference here. Hopefully we've got one. He has TWO and his refusal to use them is one of his great shortcomings Amen. Ethan would have been so much more valuable as the shooting guard. Why can most people see it except for the guy that has the responsibility to make the decision?
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Mar 1, 2020 13:39:40 GMT -8
I've been trying to figure out how Ethan's been used since about the middle of last season. I still think everything runs better with Ethan at the 2 and Vernon (or Hunt) at the point
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Post by TheGlove on Mar 1, 2020 13:59:43 GMT -8
I've been trying to figure out how Ethan's been used since about the middle of last season. I still think everything runs better with Ethan at the 2 and Vernon (or Hunt) at the point And then Reichle would be sitting. Blasphemy!
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Post by stonecrest1 on Mar 1, 2020 17:48:00 GMT -8
I know the season is not over, but just checking back to see if everyone felt this way during the season so far.... "Even if the Beavs don’t get back to the Big Dance – and even if Tres Tinkle doesn’t bring home that Player of the Year trophy – fans of the team should still be able to sit back and enjoy the final season watching their beloved father-son duo." Seriously though, one of the worst pre-season lines I've ever read for any team in any sport. Oh, don’t fool yourself. The season is over.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Mar 2, 2020 12:29:44 GMT -8
I've been trying to figure out how Ethan's been used since about the middle of last season. I still think everything runs better with Ethan at the 2 and Vernon (or Hunt) at the point The offense actually does worse with Hunt and Vernon in than with them sitting, especially when you look at Hunt and Vernon coming in with Reichle on the bench. And Hunt and Vernon are both worse defenders than any of the starting five. Hollins is a big sink on offense, but he makes up for it by occasionally playing marginal defense. I think that you can craft a better offensive five, but you will almost invariably give up way more on defense. You did not post about sitting Reichle, but I will respond to another post in this post. Only three players are better than Reichle on offense: TT, ET, and Lucas. Everyone else is an offensive downgrade. And Lucas is the worst defender on the team. And even though Lucas is a huge defensive liability, he is still a better overall player than Vernon or Hunt. Forcing a terrible PG on the floor just for the sake of having a PG on the floor does not make any sense in my mind. A guy we really miss is Washington this year. I would love to see the team be able to just rotate two of Kelley-Silva-Washington in with Reichle, ET, and TT.
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Post by treasurevalleybeav on Mar 3, 2020 0:04:49 GMT -8
While I agree w some of what you said, I don’t think either Vernon or Hunt are terrible. In fact if either of them received consistent playing time like ZR gets, they’d look much better. Playing 3-5 minutes at a time every once in a while is a horrendous way to develop point guards. When Ethan began dominating the ball instead of letting Vernon take it up, the offense died at the end if the ASU game.
As for ZR being the third best offensive player, I just don’t see numbers that support that. His points per minute are not good and he’s slow. He shouldn’t be playing 30+ minutes every game. He’s a decent passer, but not a good rebounder. He’d be more appropriate as a 6th man or just a bench guy who can fire up some threes to give the team a spark. But he’s too one dimensional to fill the role he’s been given. Just isn’t that productive.
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Post by treasurevalleybeav on Mar 3, 2020 9:15:25 GMT -8
Looked up ZR’s conference averages just now to make sure I wasn't exaggerating:
29 minutes 7.7 pts 2.8 reb 1.7 ast .5 steals/zero blocks
40.9% FG 36.5% 3’s
Just not sure how any objective person would find those numbers as productive and worthy of being a full time starter. This from someone who’s not a particular effective or versatile defender either.
His numbers last year were much worse, so it’s good he’s improving. Not good that he’s starting though
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Mar 3, 2020 13:18:45 GMT -8
Looked up ZR’s conference averages just now to make sure I wasn't exaggerating: 29 minutes 7.7 pts 2.8 reb 1.7 ast .5 steals/zero blocks 40.9% FG 36.5% 3’s Just not sure how any objective person would find those numbers as productive and worthy of being a full time starter. This from someone who’s not a particular effective or versatile defender either. His numbers last year were much worse, so it’s good he’s improving. Not good that he’s starting though Per 40 minutes: Reichle: 10.6 points 3.8 rebounds 2.3 assists 2.3 steals 2.0 turnovers 2.8 fouls Hunt: 8.1 points 3.6 rebounds 2.5 assists 1.4 steals 2.7 turnovers 5.6 fouls Vernon: 5.3 points 3.9 rebounds 3.9 assists 1.1 steals 0.7 turnovers 4.6 fouls Hunt's turnovers and fouls really stand out, way too many fouls, and the number of turnovers does not really fit into the offensive game plan. Vernon fouls too often, as well, and is not as sound defensively. Reichle is scoring at twice the rate of Vernon, and Vernon's other offensive statistics do not outweigh Reichle's points advantage. And Reichle's better defense helps to offset any perceived deficit on offense.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Mar 3, 2020 13:38:02 GMT -8
Seems to me someone is comparing point guards against small forwards. Should they have comparable stats?
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Post by stonecrest1 on Mar 3, 2020 14:17:30 GMT -8
I think the out of league schedule could be really telling. If the team somehow comes out unscathed, it could be a really good year. There are definitely 4-5 games that could likely be losses and make the article's predicted finish look very realistic. Wow do you realize the pre conference schedule was one of the easiest in the Country. The question should be- Does playing these cupcake teams help get the team ready for PAC 12 Conference Scheduled?
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Post by baseba1111 on Mar 3, 2020 15:27:39 GMT -8
Seems to me someone is comparing point guards against small forwards. Should they have comparable stats? Also using favorable 40 min/g crapola comparison. Most realize extrapolation to 40 min is meaningless especially when stats for players who barely play are accumulated in very short stints without the opportunity to grasp the flow of the game completely and build similar confidence to a starter. But again use whatever stat that proves nothing! I think the point being that ZR should have been on the bench (at least not a starter/starter minutes). Vernon and/or Hunt splitting PG with ET at the 2. ET moving the to PG when needed in shorter stints. You don't have to be a basketball genius to know that ET would have flourished at the 2 and not had to work so hard to create for himself and others. It's been pretty common knowledge on a fan board (and the general hoop community as mentioned by multiple broadcasters) this program has missed a PG since GPII.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Mar 3, 2020 17:08:53 GMT -8
I think the out of league schedule could be really telling. If the team somehow comes out unscathed, it could be a really good year. There are definitely 4-5 games that could likely be losses and make the article's predicted finish look very realistic. Wow do you realize the pre conference schedule was one of the easiest in the Country. The question should be- Does playing these cupcake teams help get the team ready for PAC 12 Conference Scheduled? I'm pretty sure a couple of those "cupcakes" were coming off of recent tournaments and expected to do better. The schedule strength can cange between the day games are scheduled and the day they're played.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Mar 3, 2020 17:10:19 GMT -8
Wow do you realize the pre conference schedule was one of the easiest in the Country. The question should be- Does playing these cupcake teams help get the team ready for PAC 12 Conference Scheduled? I'm pretty sure a couple of those "cupcakes" were coming off of recent tournaments and expected to do better. The schedule strength can cange between the day games are scheduled and the day they're played. I'm also pretty sure my intent at the time was not just the out of conference games but in league as well, I genuinely felt there were teams we wouldn't beat- a couple games we won surprised me, unfortunately a couple losses surprised me as well. This is nearly a 7 month old thread and my comment was made pre-season, not yesterday.
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