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Post by biggieorange on Aug 9, 2019 7:05:50 GMT -8
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Post by zebraworks on Aug 9, 2019 7:14:43 GMT -8
would be nice if we were hearing reports that the new DL JC guys were ripping it up but doesn't seem to be the case at all. And I think our DC will be on a hot seat so smith can get someone to produce even average results (I was jealous of the Nv. wolfpack D last year!!)
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Post by jimbeav on Aug 9, 2019 7:51:05 GMT -8
I think our DC should be on the hot seat now. Hell, he was on the hot seat the moment he got here and said we were keeping the base 3-4 defense that GAG installed. Everything associated with the prior regime should have been burned down and started over from scratch, and we should have immediately gone back to a 4-3 base, regardless of how past recruiting was emphasized.
I'm ok with sparse wins while we build this thing up, but our defensive play last year was simply unacceptable. There needs to be immediate, significant improvement on defense from the very first snap. If there's not, Tibesar needs to go. And if he doesn't, then I hate to say it but we might find our beloved Jonathan Smith on the hot seat as well...
Let's hope our defense and new players have figured some things out over the last 9 months...
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Post by badwack on Aug 9, 2019 7:54:24 GMT -8
What a great AM uplifting positive story! Ouch ummm
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Post by beaverinohio on Aug 9, 2019 7:56:56 GMT -8
would be nice if we were hearing reports that the new DL JC guys were ripping it up but doesn't seem to be the case at all. And I think our DC will be on a hot seat so smith can get someone to produce even average results (I was jealous of the Nv. wolfpack D last year!!) If the defense is as bad as late year than, yeah, maybe Tibesar will be on the hot seat. But we're talking about a total rebuild here, so even only moderate improvement should keep him safe. Guess it comes down to whether you believe it is a scheme/coaching problem or a personnel problem. I lean toward personnel problem, and it's going to take some time to get quality and just as important quantity.
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Post by kersting13 on Aug 9, 2019 8:03:10 GMT -8
Not exactly what they said, just that it's not likely they'll go from terrible to average.
They DO expect them to improve. I expect them to improve, YOU expect them to improve.
We're just not going to lead the league in defense - and that's fine.
As long as we improve enough that teams can't just run it down our throats at will as they've done frequently in the recent past will be enough of an improvement. Force teams to reach deeper in their playbooks than they have the past couple of years will be great. I'd settle for the 95th rated defense in FBS compared to what we had last year.
THAT'S IMPROVEMENT!!!
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Post by biggieorange on Aug 9, 2019 8:31:11 GMT -8
Not exactly what they said, just that it's not likely they'll go from terrible to average. They DO expect them to improve. I expect them to improve, YOU expect them to improve. We're just not going to lead the league in defense - and that's fine. As long as we improve enough that teams can't just run it down our throats at will as they've done frequently in the recent past will be enough of an improvement. Force teams to reach deeper in their playbooks than they have the past couple of years will be great. I'd settle for the 95th rated defense in FBS compared to what we had last year. THAT'S IMPROVEMENT!!! I for one think you are probably correct. It will improve, but the Defense won't be "good". They will go from the bottom of the barrel to like an 80th ranked defense. Which isn't good, but I think we will see a new level of competitiveness that has been absent. Also it does not help we have a really difficult schedule. All the real opportunities for a win on road games after Cal Poly, typically defense plays better at home. We will see, I still see 3-4 win season. The Defense will struggle and collapse at times and once in a while surprise everyone too. Hopefully this year we get maximum effort and no quitting from anyone staff included. At times it appeared Tibesar just threw in the towel, hard not to when guys made the same mistake over and over. Still he knows the stakes, if the D doesn't improve he will get the ax.
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Post by ag87 on Aug 9, 2019 8:32:08 GMT -8
They have to improve. Last year our defense gave up almost 50 points a game and 7.2 yards per rushing attempt. The next worse in conference was UCLA at 37.2 points allowed and USC at 5.0 yards per attempt. That's a staggering difference. I'm hoping for 40 points a game and a rush allowed under 6 yards. I dont know what that means in wins, but we simply can not have a defense that would be below average in the Big Sky Conference.
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Post by baseba1111 on Aug 9, 2019 8:53:30 GMT -8
would be nice if we were hearing reports that the new DL JC guys were ripping it up but doesn't seem to be the case at all. And I think our DC will be on a hot seat so smith can get someone to produce even average results (I was jealous of the Nv. wolfpack D last year!!) However, what most seem to be missing is the fact that the DL in a 3-4 are not the ones "suppose" to be making the plays. The DL with adequate talent and depth allows the ability to run more stunts and schemes. OSU's new depth at LB will be the major difference this season. It was the LB play... young, weak, slow, reactive, poor tacklers, etc... that was the most responsible for the incredibly poor run defense. They were also very culpable in the passing game... poor reads/drops, poor execution of coverages, and TERRIBLE pass rush and edge contain techniques. Partly coaching in terms of doing too much with lesser talent that had to play too much and were physically over matched in most cases. BUT, truly for the most part our LB core was thin and very inexperienced. I have no idea what "rank" the D will end up as that depends on the play of 128 or so other programs. But, the "build" in one year of real recruiting has gone VERY well. Transfers and recruits, plus one full year in the weight room and with the system will pay dividends. Will OSU be over matched in some games? Certainly. But, this defense is far more athletic, stronger, and most importantly deeper in the key area... LB. PS- The word is... depending on signings this coming season a 4-3 scheme is coming on some level. The need for some big time edge rushers and 2-3 DT (maybe the toughest single position to recruit difference makers) that can handle 2 gap techniques and push the pocket is something we do not have now. I'm a "fan" of both defenses... IF you have the personnel to run them. Right now OSU the 3-4 best fits the bodies on the current roster.
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Post by bucktoothvarmit on Aug 9, 2019 10:15:31 GMT -8
would be nice if we were hearing reports that the new DL JC guys were ripping it up but doesn't seem to be the case at all. And I think our DC will be on a hot seat so smith can get someone to produce even average results (I was jealous of the Nv. wolfpack D last year!!) However, what most seem to be missing is the fact that the DL in a 3-4 are not the ones "suppose" to be making the plays. The DL with adequate talent and depth allows the ability to run more stunts and schemes. OSU's new depth at LB will be the major difference this season. It was the LB play... young, weak, slow, reactive, poor tacklers, etc... that was the most responsible for the incredibly poor run defense. They were also very culpable in the passing game... poor reads/drops, poor execution of coverages, and TERRIBLE pass rush and edge contain techniques. Partly coaching in terms of doing too much with lesser talent that had to play too much and were physically over matched in most cases. BUT, truly for the most part our LB core was thin and very inexperienced. I have no idea what "rank" the D will end up as that depends on the play of 128 or so other programs. But, the "build" in one year of real recruiting has gone VERY well. Transfers and recruits, plus one full year in the weight room and with the system will pay dividends. Will OSU be over matched in some games? Certainly. But, this defense is far more athletic, stronger, and most importantly deeper in the key area... LB. PS- The word is... depending on signings this coming season a 4-3 scheme is coming on some level. The need for some big time edge rushers and 2-3 DT (maybe the toughest single position to recruit difference makers) that can handle 2 gap techniques and push the pocket is something we do not have now. I'm a "fan" of both defenses... IF you have the personnel to run them. Right now OSU the 3-4 best fits the bodies on the current roster. I'm pinning my hopes on Roberts and Gumbs.........I hope they don't let me down. They could be the difference makers. If they can get off blocks and meet the ball carrier with a BAD attitude, and it gets contagious...... The difference between a bad and an average defense is pretty small but shows up big time on the scoreboard. Beavs offense should have enough weapons to get some wins if the defense is "average" Of course, I/we want good/great D but from the abyss we have been mired in, I'll take average.......baby steps..... Go Beavs!! Kick some Cowboy arse!!!
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Post by ochobeavo on Aug 9, 2019 10:48:49 GMT -8
I think our DC should be on the hot seat now. Hell, he was on the hot seat the moment he got here and said we were keeping the base 3-4 defense that GAG installed. Everything associated with the prior regime should have been burned down and started over from scratch, and we should have immediately gone back to a 4-3 base, regardless of how past recruiting was emphasized. I'm ok with sparse wins while we build this thing up, but our defensive play last year was simply unacceptable. There needs to be immediate, significant improvement on defense from the very first snap. If there's not, Tibesar needs to go. And if he doesn't, then I hate to say it but we might find our beloved Jonathan Smith on the hot seat as well... Let's hope our defense and new players have figured some things out over the last 9 months... I don't know.. it's frustrating for sure but I personally don't put it on Tibesar. There were times I tried to tally up exactly who we had on the field last year and it felt like it was a bunch of young undersized kids who were FR and SOPHs at just about every spot. They obviously took their lumps but here's hoping experience, BETTER depth, continuity w/coaches & schemes and weight room pay some dividends.
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Post by obf on Aug 9, 2019 10:53:54 GMT -8
Reading between the lines on a few of Jonathan Smiths comments, it sounds like he and Tibesar had a "Come to Jesus" heart to heart about defensive schemes as well, so hopefully we see some schemes that are creative and reactive to what is actually happening on the field. 3-4 vs 4-3 is kind of besides the point and this time. I expect we will play with a rush linebacker most of the time which turn the front into a 4 man front anyways. The thing I would like to see this year is schematically selling out for chaos and disruption. That will lead to some long runs/passes/TDs for opposing offenses, but lets be honest they were likely to happen even with the more conservative, mostly base defenses we were running last year. Chaos and disruption leads to sacks / TFL and Turnovers. That's what will get this defense off the field, turnovers and TFL leading to long yardage downs where the offense will be a little more predictable. It will be several more years and recruiting cycles and scheme buy in until we can just line up and beat another team 3 downs in a row leading to punt.
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Post by atownbeaver on Aug 9, 2019 11:01:24 GMT -8
Not exactly what they said, just that it's not likely they'll go from terrible to average. They DO expect them to improve. I expect them to improve, YOU expect them to improve. We're just not going to lead the league in defense - and that's fine. As long as we improve enough that teams can't just run it down our throats at will as they've done frequently in the recent past will be enough of an improvement. Force teams to reach deeper in their playbooks than they have the past couple of years will be great. I'd settle for the 95th rated defense in FBS compared to what we had last year. THAT'S IMPROVEMENT!!! Every single Beaver fan here needs to be ready and willing to accept the fact we will probably only win 2 or 3 games again this year... But we will still be a better team. I get than an L is an L... but it does matter that we lose by a TD instead of 3 TDs. it matters the game is still close in the 4th quarter. It is all incremental steps of improvement to get us out of the disaster Anderpanties left us. I am fairly confident Anderpant's stint at Oregon State will go down in history as the single worse coaching performance in college football history. We will be better in all phases of the game. We will see the best QB play we have seen in nearly 5 years. We have one of, if not THE best RB in the league. We brought in players on the defense that can at least be considered division 1 quality. Other than a brutal lose on the DL, we are fairly healthy at this point. I am not sold on Tibsear, but I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt based on the complete train wreck he inherited. I will admit, however, I am worried that much of the issues I saw last year were not strictly talent deficiencies, but full blown schematic issues. Players just in the wrong place. Players going to the wrong place. Confusion, communication... problems everywhere. But, then again, more times than not I saw a RB make it 5 yards before somebody even took a swipe at him. When you are that bad sometimes it is hard to disentangle was was an X and O issue and what was a Jimmy and Joe issue. As for 3-4... I have never been a fan of it in college. Unless you have the clout of an Alabama or other major legacy program I cannot see that you can reliably get enough top flight DLs to make it work. 3-4 needs 3 great players, and generally needs what is considered the biggest unicorn position in all of football, an every down, two gap NT. Hell, the NFL has hard enough time finding quality NTs. over the past 20 years of Oregon State football, I can think of us landing two players that really would of fit that bill in college: Dwan Edwards, and Stephen Paea. I could entertain an argument for maybe 1 or 2 more. in a 4-3 you can get by with 4 average players. But, that rant aside, I believe we stuck with 3-4 because that was what our roster was build (very poorly) for. Coach Smith is playing the hand he was dealt. schematic changes will come over the course of recruiting cycles. He is aggressively collects DL players and has secured several quality JC commits on the DL. I am not sure was are long for 3-4 defense, but I think it is what will have for a season or two more until we can flip this roster a little bit. Anyways. end of the day, we will be a better team next this year... but we were SO BAD last year that I cannot reasonably expect to see much improvement in the W/L. We will need to hang our hats on other metrics this year, while we punish our livers.
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Post by biggieorange on Aug 9, 2019 18:10:09 GMT -8
Not exactly what they said, just that it's not likely they'll go from terrible to average. They DO expect them to improve. I expect them to improve, YOU expect them to improve. We're just not going to lead the league in defense - and that's fine. As long as we improve enough that teams can't just run it down our throats at will as they've done frequently in the recent past will be enough of an improvement. Force teams to reach deeper in their playbooks than they have the past couple of years will be great. I'd settle for the 95th rated defense in FBS compared to what we had last year. THAT'S IMPROVEMENT!!! Every single Beaver fan here needs to be ready and willing to accept the fact we will probably only win 2 or 3 games again this year... But we will still be a better team. I get than an L is an L... but it does matter that we lose by a TD instead of 3 TDs. it matters the game is still close in the 4th quarter. It is all incremental steps of improvement to get us out of the disaster Anderpanties left us. I am fairly confident Anderpant's stint at Oregon State will go down in history as the single worse coaching performance in college football history. We will be better in all phases of the game. We will see the best QB play we have seen in nearly 5 years. We have one of, if not THE best RB in the league. We brought in players on the defense that can at least be considered division 1 quality. Other than a brutal lose on the DL, we are fairly healthy at this point. I am not sold on Tibsear, but I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt based on the complete train wreck he inherited. I will admit, however, I am worried that much of the issues I saw last year were not strictly talent deficiencies, but full blown schematic issues. Players just in the wrong place. Players going to the wrong place. Confusion, communication... problems everywhere. But, then again, more times than not I saw a RB make it 5 yards before somebody even took a swipe at him. When you are that bad sometimes it is hard to disentangle was was an X and O issue and what was a Jimmy and Joe issue. As for 3-4... I have never been a fan of it in college. Unless you have the clout of an Alabama or other major legacy program I cannot see that you can reliably get enough top flight DLs to make it work. 3-4 needs 3 great players, and generally needs what is considered the biggest unicorn position in all of football, an every down, two gap NT. Hell, the NFL has hard enough time finding quality NTs. over the past 20 years of Oregon State football, I can think of us landing two players that really would of fit that bill in college: Dwan Edwards, and Stephen Paea. I could entertain an argument for maybe 1 or 2 more. in a 4-3 you can get by with 4 average players. But, that rant aside, I believe we stuck with 3-4 because that was what our roster was build (very poorly) for. Coach Smith is playing the hand he was dealt. schematic changes will come over the course of recruiting cycles. He is aggressively collects DL players and has secured several quality JC commits on the DL. I am not sure was are long for 3-4 defense, but I think it is what will have for a season or two more until we can flip this roster a little bit. Anyways. end of the day, we will be a better team next this year... but we were SO BAD last year that I cannot reasonably expect to see much improvement in the W/L. We will need to hang our hats on other metrics this year, while we punish our livers. Being totally honest I was going to add "much" to the thread title.
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Post by atownbeaver on Aug 9, 2019 18:28:39 GMT -8
Being totally honest I was going to add "much" to the thread title. I honestly think we will see GREAT improvement on the defense... relatively speaking. I mean, we were the 128th ranked defense. we were otherworldly bad. I suspect we slash some of our awful metrics down considerably. But, instead of a 128th ranked defense, we are, say, an 80th ranked defense. I am not sure that is good enough to win Pac-12 games without a lights out offense and some lucky bounces. And while I think we have a pretty good offense, I also do not think we will be a scoring powerhouse on that side either. We will still not be a good defense. we aren't going to suddenly be a top 25 unit this year.but objectively speaking, we will have a greatly improved defense. We have an awful schedule. a poor road/home mix and a rough OOC schedule to boot. Maybe in another year, we are a 4-5 win team, I just am not sure it is in the cards, despite us being a significantly improved team.
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