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Post by nabeav on Nov 23, 2018 22:25:31 GMT -8
But right now, Niner certainly has a ways to go to live up to CGA's resume. That was a god-awful season and just about every bright spot was stained by...well, today. [/p][/quote] GA’s resume includes 3 PAC-12 wins, none on the road, and a total of 7 wins in three seasons. I’d say Niner is right on pace. Also, I’ll take the no drama, creative play calling and lack of absurd catch phrases over CGA’s side show any day. The defense was next level bad for sure, but the offense was light years better. Our kicker got the yips, but we’ve been riding a streak of like 15-20 years of way above average kickers, we were bound to get a clunker at some point. I mean, our best kicker just happens to be a better baseball player. Defensively, I saw guys getting physically overmatched rather than mentally overmatched more often. There weren’t blown assignments so much as just an inability to physically stay with a guy. Plus think of it this way: between year one and year two of CGA, we switched DCs, demoted our OC, completely changed our offense and a good portion of our best players graduated, transferred, or switched positions. Then we did most of that s%#t again between years two and three. I’m guessing there is going to be much more consistency and stability in the program going forward, and I expect the product on the field to reflect that. We are getting a talent influx like we haven’t seen since probably 2000 when we brought in Chad, TJ and the Presidents. We have a great receiver in Hodgins, two plus RBs in Jefferson and Pierce......things will get better. I can’t wait until all these Beaver fans who leave at halftime or don’t even show up are singing Steam’s “Na Na Hey Hey” fans who do the same damn thing as we go up 42-17 in the third quarter.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Nov 23, 2018 22:59:28 GMT -8
He’s the guy who last fall said he would give Andersen six years to have a winning season.
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Post by RenoBeaver on Nov 24, 2018 3:36:09 GMT -8
lol...I don't know, that 2015 roster sucked serious ass.
There is a whole bunch of "social welfare" here for Niner, certainly I'm guilty of it. And maybe a little over the top hate for CGA. But right now, Niner certainly has a ways to go to live up to CGA's resume. That was a god-awful season and just about every bright spot was stained by...well, today.
Offensively, that 2015 roster was loaded. And it was the offense and special teams that put 42 up on Oregon. The Civil War was Marcus McMaryion's first start and one of the first starts for Ryan Nall. If GAG had half a brain cell, both of them (or at least Nall and a halfway decent quarterback) would have been starting from week 1. With a coach who was not a walking dumpster fire, Oregon State wins at least three and probably more. With a phenomenal coach, Oregon State may have won four this year. Smitty has shown himself to not be a phenomenal coach. The front 7 is disastrously bad. I think that you would have to go back to at least the 80s to find a worse defense and that may be shorting some of those 80s defenses. That needs to be fixed. I think that scheme is a huge part of the defense being bad, but others disagree. We'll see. I like what I see in pretty much all other aspects. In almost all other facets, this team is light years better than last year. I am hopeful that there is still a lot of potential on offense. I am hopeful that there is still a lot of potential in the defensive backfield. I am hopeful that there is still a lot of potential on special teams. If we could come out and scheme for talent with the front seven, next year could be entertaining. Loaded... Dear lord. 3M was a freshman. We had a RB in Storm Woods. Bolden was good, but I'll take this group of receivers all day long. I'm sorry, This year's offense is way better and more talented than the 2015 team.
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Post by RenoBeaver on Nov 24, 2018 3:54:20 GMT -8
But right now, Niner certainly has a ways to go to live up to CGA's resume. That was a god-awful season and just about every bright spot was stained by...well, today. [/p][/quote] GA’s resume includes 3 PAC-12 wins, none on the road, and a total of 7 wins in three seasons. I’d say Niner is right on pace. Also, I’ll take the no drama, creative play calling and lack of absurd catch phrases over CGA’s side show any day. The defense was next level bad for sure, but the offense was light years better. Our kicker got the yips, but we’ve been riding a streak of like 15-20 years of way above average kickers, we were bound to get a clunker at some point. I mean, our best kicker just happens to be a better baseball player. Defensively, I saw guys getting physically overmatched rather than mentally overmatched more often. There weren’t blown assignments so much as just an inability to physically stay with a guy. Plus think of it this way: between year one and year two of CGA, we switched DCs, demoted our OC, completely changed our offense and a good portion of our best players graduated, transferred, or switched positions. Then we did most of that s%#t again between years two and three. I’m guessing there is going to be much more consistency and stability in the program going forward, and I expect the product on the field to reflect that. We are getting a talent influx like we haven’t seen since probably 2000 when we brought in Chad, TJ and the Presidents. We have a great receiver in Hodgins, two plus RBs in Jefferson and Pierce......things will get better. I can’t wait until all these Beaver fans who leave at halftime or don’t even show up are singing Steam’s “Na Na Hey Hey” fans who do the same damn thing as we go up 42-17 in the third quarter. [/quote] GAG has also won 2 conference championships. Neither took over a good situation, but granted, Smith has a bigger hole to dig out of because of Anderson. Anderson is a bad head football coach who had some success. We don't know what Smith is yet. Ultimately it comes down to wins, not one road win or a productive offense. Today was epically bad football, parricularly the coaching. Had that been Harsin, or Baldwin, there would be venom from Beaver fans, given all the same variables. Smith is going to be given every benefit of the doubt, I don't really have a problem with that, I think he needs to be given leeway and I do think he will get it turned around. I expect year 2 to be better than 2016. Regardless of what turned out, and it was a massive fail, there was legit signs of life. We should expect something similar next year.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Nov 24, 2018 20:37:22 GMT -8
Offensively, that 2015 roster was loaded. And it was the offense and special teams that put 42 up on Oregon. The Civil War was Marcus McMaryion's first start and one of the first starts for Ryan Nall. If GAG had half a brain cell, both of them (or at least Nall and a halfway decent quarterback) would have been starting from week 1. With a coach who was not a walking dumpster fire, Oregon State wins at least three and probably more. With a phenomenal coach, Oregon State may have won four this year. Smitty has shown himself to not be a phenomenal coach. The front 7 is disastrously bad. I think that you would have to go back to at least the 80s to find a worse defense and that may be shorting some of those 80s defenses. That needs to be fixed. I think that scheme is a huge part of the defense being bad, but others disagree. We'll see. I like what I see in pretty much all other aspects. In almost all other facets, this team is light years better than last year. I am hopeful that there is still a lot of potential on offense. I am hopeful that there is still a lot of potential in the defensive backfield. I am hopeful that there is still a lot of potential on special teams. If we could come out and scheme for talent with the front seven, next year could be entertaining. Loaded... Dear lord. 3M was a freshman. We had a RB in Storm Woods. Bolden was good, but I'll take this group of receivers all day long. I'm sorry, This year's offense is way better and more talented than the 2015 team. You would rather have 2018's line over 2015's line? If so, are you smoking gas, son? All five starters returned on the line in 2015, as did Isaac Seumalo. Storms Woods returned. All three receivers returned, as did Jordan Villamin. Only Mannion and Hamlett graduated. Del Rio and Smith were the backups. Oregon State's depth at quarterback was phenomenal. Luke Del Rio, backed up by Kempt and McMaryion. If GAG was not so adamant about starting a wide receiver at quarterback, Mullaney probably would have stayed for his senior season. Offensively, 2015 looked bright. Then, GAG came in and blew the whole thing up. He chased away talent and buried other talent that was too loyal to leave despite the writing on the wall. Smitty was very good at using the pieces that he had leftover, but by no means did he have the arsenal that GAG inherited.
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Post by zebraworks on Nov 24, 2018 21:27:27 GMT -8
it was pretty obvious this season that our offense, even without a good QB, was waaay improved in scheme and performance. Jefferson could be one of the main reasons as that kid is gold! I just hope the Neb. QB transfer is lights out and stays healthy with our pass blocking! Not sure which other QB's will stay on for next season although if we have to go back to them we are in trouble again with no depth.
I wonder which RB's stay with us too as there are 3 young ones that may get restless for playing time.
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Post by RenoBeaver on Nov 25, 2018 8:22:07 GMT -8
Loaded... Dear lord. 3M was a freshman. We had a RB in Storm Woods. Bolden was good, but I'll take this group of receivers all day long. I'm sorry, This year's offense is way better and more talented than the 2015 team. You would rather have 2018's line over 2015's line? If so, are you smoking gas, son? All five starters returned on the line in 2015, as did Isaac Seumalo. Storms Woods returned. All three receivers returned, as did Jordan Villamin. Only Mannion and Hamlett graduated. Del Rio and Smith were the backups. Oregon State's depth at quarterback was phenomenal. Luke Del Rio, backed up by Kempt and McMaryion. If GAG was not so adamant about starting a wide receiver at quarterback, Mullaney probably would have stayed for his senior season. Offensively, 2015 looked bright. Then, GAG came in and blew the whole thing up. He chased away talent and buried other talent that was too loyal to leave despite the writing on the wall. Smitty was very good at using the pieces that he had leftover, but by no means did he have the arsenal that GAG inherited. smoking gas, son? lol, best you don't ever get in a yo mama battle at the playground. Storm Woods would be the 3rd best RB on this team, he was never good. Serviceable, but meh. 3 returning receivers? We already talked about Bolden, who might have put up decent #s if he didn't drop 20% of the passes thrown his way. As a reciever I'll take the reliability of Hernandez over a speedster like Bolden. Vallamin? hahahahaha. Hodgins was better as a freshman than Villamin ever was. Who am I missing, Dockery? Hawkins, Jarmin. Outstanding group of receivers. QB Depth? Again, we are comparing the 2015 team to the 2018 team, not 2014. I sure don't blame Smith for the attrition this offseason. Del Rio was never on the roster, and in case you didn't notice, Del Rio ended up sucking ass and being benched. Kempt was buried so deep no one knew who he was, and emerged 2 years later in a hay field. But still wasn't good enough to win his job back his senior year after going down with injury. But yeah, that 2015 team was LOADED! btw, Oregon State's offense in 2014 finished 90th in the country. All that talent and depth GAG squandered in 2015 from the 90th ranked offense. No doubt GAG was awful. So were the teams he coached and the players on them.
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Post by hottubbeaver on Nov 25, 2018 10:21:14 GMT -8
smoking gas, son? lol, best you don't ever get in a yo mama battle at the playground. Storm Woods would be the 3rd best RB on this team, he was never good. Serviceable, but meh. 3 returning receivers? We already talked about Bolden, who might have put up decent #s if he didn't drop 20% of the passes thrown his way. As a reciever I'll take the reliability of Hernandez over a speedster like Bolden. Vallamin? hahahahaha. Hodgins was better as a freshman than Villamin ever was. Who am I missing, Dockery? Hawkins, Jarmin. Outstanding group of receivers. QB Depth? Again, we are comparing the 2015 team to the 2018 team, not 2014. I sure don't blame Smith for the attrition this offseason. Del Rio was never on the roster, and in case you didn't notice, Del Rio ended up sucking ass and being benched. Kempt was buried so deep no one knew who he was, and emerged 2 years later in a hay field. But still wasn't good enough to win his job back his senior year after going down with injury. But yeah, that 2015 team was LOADED! btw, Oregon State's offense in 2014 finished 90th in the country. All that talent and depth GAG squandered in 2015 from the 90th ranked offense. No doubt GAG was awful. So were the teams he coached and the players on them. Del Rio won the starting job at Florida and he didn't lose the job he was knocked out with injury. Kempt has the highest QB rating 2016-18 at Iowa State, best TD to INT ratio, and highest completion percentage. Don't know if he had an injury or why he wasn't starter this year, but it's not because he wasn't effective.
The last OSU QB to win the CW has now engineered back to back 10 win seasons and could make 12 wins this year before all is done.
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Post by RenoBeaver on Nov 25, 2018 10:42:04 GMT -8
smoking gas, son? lol, best you don't ever get in a yo mama battle at the playground. Storm Woods would be the 3rd best RB on this team, he was never good. Serviceable, but meh. 3 returning receivers? We already talked about Bolden, who might have put up decent #s if he didn't drop 20% of the passes thrown his way. As a reciever I'll take the reliability of Hernandez over a speedster like Bolden. Vallamin? hahahahaha. Hodgins was better as a freshman than Villamin ever was. Who am I missing, Dockery? Hawkins, Jarmin. Outstanding group of receivers. QB Depth? Again, we are comparing the 2015 team to the 2018 team, not 2014. I sure don't blame Smith for the attrition this offseason. Del Rio was never on the roster, and in case you didn't notice, Del Rio ended up sucking ass and being benched. Kempt was buried so deep no one knew who he was, and emerged 2 years later in a hay field. But still wasn't good enough to win his job back his senior year after going down with injury. But yeah, that 2015 team was LOADED! btw, Oregon State's offense in 2014 finished 90th in the country. All that talent and depth GAG squandered in 2015 from the 90th ranked offense. No doubt GAG was awful. So were the teams he coached and the players on them. Del Rio won the starting job at Florida and he didn't lose the job he was knocked out with injury. Kempt has the highest QB rating 2016-18 at Iowa State, best TD to INT ratio, and highest completion percentage. Don't know if he had an injury or why he wasn't starter this year, but it's not because he wasn't effective.
The last OSU QB to win the CW has now engineered back to back 10 win seasons and could make 12 wins this year before all is done.
If he didn't lose the job, why did he never start there again? I'll tell you why, because he royally sucked. Kempt did not suck, he was actually quite good...in 2017, not 2015, not 2016...2017. He just wasn't as good as the back-up and couldn't regain the role as starter the following year. But they are going to make him a coach. Lastly, and most importantly, neither were on the 2015 team!
If you, or whoever, are telling me that Jake Del Rio, or Kyle Kempt as a walk-on, or 3M as a true freshman, would be better QBs in 2015 than Jake Luton in 2018, I'm laughing at you. They would have been no better than...well, Jake Luton in 2015. They all would have sucked, Jake Del Rio did suck throughout his career, Kempt shined 2 years later, and McMaryion completed 40% of his passes in the 7 games he played in 2015.
But yeah, OSU was LOADED at QB in 2015. JFC.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Nov 25, 2018 11:50:33 GMT -8
Del Rio won the starting job at Florida and he didn't lose the job he was knocked out with injury. Kempt has the highest QB rating 2016-18 at Iowa State, best TD to INT ratio, and highest completion percentage. Don't know if he had an injury or why he wasn't starter this year, but it's not because he wasn't effective.
The last OSU QB to win the CW has now engineered back to back 10 win seasons and could make 12 wins this year before all is done.
If he didn't lose the job, why did he never start there again? I'll tell you why, because he royally sucked. Kempt did not suck, he was actually quite good...in 2017, not 2015, not 2016...2017. He just wasn't as good as the back-up and couldn't regain the role as starter the following year. But they are going to make him a coach. Lastly, and most importantly, neither were on the 2015 team!
If you, or whoever, are telling me that Jake Del Rio, or Kyle Kempt as a walk-on, or 3M as a true freshman, would be better QBs in 2015 than Jake Luton in 2018, I'm laughing at you. They would have been no better than...well, Jake Luton in 2015. They all would have sucked, Jake Del Rio did suck throughout his career, Kempt shined 2 years later, and McMaryion completed 40% of his passes in the 7 games he played in 2015.
But yeah, OSU was LOADED at QB in 2015. JFC.
A healthy Del Rio won the starting job the first game he was eligible, had two shoulder injuries and a knee injury and kept the job, playing through the injuries until his body couldn’t hold out while having a 5 and 1 record. He was replaced and underwent surgery. The next season he came back and won the starter’s job again. Unfortunately he suffered a season ending injury early on. He chose to medically retire at that point rather than go through all the rehab just to try to play with a bum shoulder and leg again. If you had actually followed what was going on at the time you’d know he didn’t “lose the job”.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Nov 25, 2018 13:42:27 GMT -8
Del Rio did start, but Florida's offense was pretty much awful when he played.
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Post by Judge Smails on Nov 25, 2018 13:48:12 GMT -8
Del Rio did start, but Florida's offense was pretty much awful when he played. Florida got to 5-1 with their defense. Del Rio was below average there for the most part.
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Post by orangeattack on Nov 25, 2018 14:04:30 GMT -8
If he didn't lose the job, why did he never start there again? I'll tell you why, because he royally sucked. Kempt did not suck, he was actually quite good...in 2017, not 2015, not 2016...2017. He just wasn't as good as the back-up and couldn't regain the role as starter the following year. But they are going to make him a coach. Lastly, and most importantly, neither were on the 2015 team!
If you, or whoever, are telling me that Jake Del Rio, or Kyle Kempt as a walk-on, or 3M as a true freshman, would be better QBs in 2015 than Jake Luton in 2018, I'm laughing at you. They would have been no better than...well, Jake Luton in 2015. They all would have sucked, Jake Del Rio did suck throughout his career, Kempt shined 2 years later, and McMaryion completed 40% of his passes in the 7 games he played in 2015.
But yeah, OSU was LOADED at QB in 2015. JFC.
A healthy Del Rio won the starting job the first game he was eligible, had two shoulder injuries and a knee injury and kept the job, playing through the injuries until his body couldn’t hold out while having a 5 and 1 record. He was replaced and underwent surgery. The next season he came back and won the starter’s job again. Unfortunately he suffered a season ending injury early on. He chose to medically retire at that point rather than go through all the rehab just to try to play with a bum shoulder and leg again. If you had actually followed what was going on at the time you’d know he didn’t “lose the job”. I'm not sure Del Rio would have had any more luck with injuries at Oregon State, but the point remains he WAS talented, so was Kempt and obviously so was 3M. I don't think saying that it was "loaded" or an "embarrassment of riches" when taken in context with the current QB roster, is out of the pale. The variable that nobody can pinpoint in all of this: what type of system they were playing in, how much time did they have to learn that system, and whether or not the staff is putting them in a position to succeed. Riley's pro-set offense was notorious for having a steep learning curve for the QB. Smith's offense with Lindgren is not that offense, it has much more of a Chris Petersen flavor and from the objective results this season, it does not have that same steep learning curve for the QB that Riley/Langsdorf's offense did. So, long story short, I don't think you can definitively make that statement, that Luton in 18 would have been inarguably better than all 3 of those other QB's under Smith and Lindgren. In fact, with 3M's instant success under Tedford, I think you can make the opposite argument. I don't know if Jake is going to get a look at the NFL. I know the offense was demonstrably better with him at the controls instead of Colletto but what does that tell us? Not much in my opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2018 14:48:03 GMT -8
play all these bench guys is good experience but their learning on the job means beach guys are getting open too easily.
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Post by RenoBeaver on Nov 25, 2018 18:58:52 GMT -8
I'm not sure Del Rio would have had any more luck with injuries at Oregon State, but the point remains he WAS talented, so was Kempt and obviously so was 3M. I don't think saying that it was "loaded" or an "embarrassment of riches" when taken in context with the current QB roster, is out of the pale. The variable that nobody can pinpoint in all of this: what type of system they were playing in, how much time did they have to learn that system, and whether or not the staff is putting them in a position to succeed. Riley's pro-set offense was notorious for having a steep learning curve for the QB. Smith's offense with Lindgren is not that offense, it has much more of a Chris Petersen flavor and from the objective results this season, it does not have that same steep learning curve for the QB that Riley/Langsdorf's offense did. So, long story short, I don't think you can definitively make that statement, that Luton in 18 would have been inarguably better than all 3 of those other QB's under Smith and Lindgren. In fact, with 3M's instant success under Tedford, I think you can make the opposite argument. I don't know if Jake is going to get a look at the NFL. I know the offense was demonstrably better with him at the controls instead of Colletto but what does that tell us? Not much in my opinion.
I'm just gonna go ahead and add this one last time, because this originated as a debate about the 2015 offense, which according to Wilkie was "loaded", vs. the 2018 offense. Neither Del Rio, nor Kempt, were on that roster, that was just a slick Wilkie way of changing the argument to his benefit. But, even had they been on that roster, I personally think they wouldn't have been very good QBs in 2015, in any offense. Certainly not as good as Luton in 2018, which wasn't great. But probably better than Collins, Mitchell, and who was that other freshman QB that started a few games...McMaryion? Also, claiming Kempt as some sort of future star in 2015 because of what he accomplished in 2017 is pure hindsight. He's listed as a "squad member" on the 2014 roster. Not one Beaver Fan I know was throwing bricks because he left the program.
LOL, anyway, I'm not changing any minds here, no one is changing my mind. The 2018 offense was better than 2015 offense, better players, better stats, better results, better everything. Even had Smith been the coach of that 2015 team, it still wouldn't have been as good as 2018.
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