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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2017 13:45:47 GMT -8
cuz i rap occasionally.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Sept 24, 2017 10:17:39 GMT -8
Gill won't be changed. Probably Arnold dining hall and Avery Lodge, as a sop to the PC crowd.
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Post by lebaneaver on Sept 24, 2017 11:07:49 GMT -8
Ahhhh. Just for the "PC crowd." Straw man much?
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Sept 24, 2017 13:06:01 GMT -8
Who else has complained?
No problem with Avery Lodge being renamed. He was an avowed KKK member. Arnold was simply a Confederate soldier, serving his state, who was later paroled, as were all who served in the CSA.
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Post by lebaneaver on Sept 24, 2017 15:33:16 GMT -8
I get it. Fuzzy, maddening subject for me. There certainly IS a distinction between maniacal lunatics like Hitler and the entire nazi party, and a man born in a very different time...into racism, taught racism, and ignorantly accepted it as God's will. No one he knew or respected thought otherwise. What standard do we use? A powerful man who punished minorities with his racism is OUTED, but...a "good soldier" obeying his authority figures gets a pass? Most (if not all) "good soldiers" don't have monuments, stadiums, or arenas named in their honor. Institutional honor. If Slats Gill was a flaming racist...in the 40s, 50s and 60s....and he used that hatred to block opportunities for African Americans... and his writings, statements, actions,etc., prove that....should he have a place of honor at OSU? I don't think so. Maybe it shouldn't be left up to a 60 year old white guy living in lily white Lebanon, Oregon to decide. I see gray here, too. As Spud asked in a prior post; where in hell does it end? But, as Squonk asked; isn't this...a forum in support of a university... The right place to debate it? What standard do we use?
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Post by Werebeaver on Sept 24, 2017 17:04:23 GMT -8
Gill won't be changed. Probably Arnold dining hall and Avery Lodge, as a sop to the PC crowd. Kerry Eggers of the Portland Tribune, whose father John Eggers worked as SID with Slats as both coach and AD, weighs in with an article. portlandtribune.com/pt/12-sports/372782-256184-removing-gill-name-on-arena-misguidedIt is interesting to note that Slats did have a black player and did recruit Charlie White to come to Corvallis. So it's not accurate to claim that he banned black players from his team.
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Post by lebaneaver on Sept 24, 2017 19:20:34 GMT -8
And....THAT is something ELSE. IF a fellow makes amends, has a REAL change of heart (and mind), and owns up to his past...that has to be taken into account, I think.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Sept 24, 2017 20:06:32 GMT -8
As I said: Avery, yes, remove his name. Avowed member of a group dedicated to racial and religious subjugation and terrorism.
Arnold, no need to change. He was a Confederate solider for a brief time, serving his state, was subsequently paroled, and served OAC with distinction in his later life.
Benton Hall was renamed in honor of the citizens of Benton County. The county was named after Senator FH Benton, a southern sympathizer. But the hall was named in honor of the individual citizens of a county who stepped up to support the college financially in its time of need. The citizens of Benton county had no say whatsoever in who the county they lived in was named after many years before.
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Post by nabeav on Sept 24, 2017 22:42:51 GMT -8
It's insane that we are basically having a contest between four members of Oregon State's history to see who is the most racist. Loser gets his name taken off a building.
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Post by Werebeaver on Sept 25, 2017 6:56:48 GMT -8
It's insane that we are basically having a contest between four members of Oregon State's history to see who is the most racist. Loser gets his name taken off a building. It's not "insane". We name buildings after individuals to hold them and their lives up as worthy of honor and respect. Klan members deserve neither. That's not "insane". That is very sane.
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Post by nabeav on Sept 25, 2017 7:44:33 GMT -8
Right, what I was saying is that I don't think we are going to rename all these buildings. We're going to draw a line at what is "too racist." And that, to me, is insane. Either we scrub all names from buildings of people who were sorta racist, or we leave them and make sure to educate everyone about why their name is on the building and why these people were not infallible. I have no problem with leaving someone's name on the building while also mentioning that this person was not without fault. Sort of like allowing Pete Rose into the Hall of Fame, but making sure that on the plaque it says "Pete Rose was a supreme a-hole who bet on his own team. Also collected 4,192 hits."
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2017 7:57:41 GMT -8
Right, what I was saying is that I don't think we are going to rename all these buildings. We're going to draw a line at what is "too racist." And that, to me, is insane. Either we scrub all names from buildings of people who were sorta racist, or we leave them and make sure to educate everyone about why their name is on the building and why these people were not infallible. I have no problem with leaving someone's name on the building while also mentioning that this person was not without fault. Sort of like allowing Pete Rose into the Hall of Fame, but making sure that on the plaque it says "Pete Rose was a supreme a-hole who bet on his own team. Also collected 4,192 hits." Let's look at some famous "racists": Babe Ruth, John Wayne, Elvis Presley, Woodrow Wilson (at his cabinet meetings they used to tell "darkie" jokes), and Walt Disney. So I guess we'll have to rename all those "Woodrow Wilson" junior high schools, ban Elvis Presley songs from the radio, ban John Wayne movies and remove his star from that Hollywood sidewalk, scratch Babe Ruth from the record books, and stop going to Disneyland and Disney World. I'm really looking forward to our politically correct future. Oops, almost forgot about FDR. He signed an executive order sending 127,000 Japanese Americans to internment camps based on racial profiling. We'll have to remove all references to him from public buildings, too. Oh, excuse me, people of Japanese descent don't constitute a large enough voting block to force a change here. AND I forgot Abraham Lincoln: "Our republican system was meant for a homogeneous people. As long as blacks continue to live with the whites they constitute a threat to the national life. Family life may also collapse and the increase of mixed breed bastards may some day challenge the supremacy of the white man." Hmm, there are so many I can't really go on. EVERY statue is going to have to come down and every building with the name of a flawed human being on it is going to have to get a name change, I think.
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Post by Werebeaver on Sept 25, 2017 8:00:35 GMT -8
Right, what I was saying is that I don't think we are going to rename all these buildings. We're going to draw a line at what is "too racist." And that, to me, is insane. Either we scrub all names from buildings of people who were sorta racist, or we leave them and make sure to educate everyone about why their name is on the building and why these people were not infallible. I have no problem with leaving someone's name on the building while also mentioning that this person was not without fault. Sort of like allowing Pete Rose into the Hall of Fame, but making sure that on the plaque it says "Pete Rose was a supreme a-hole who bet on his own team. Also collected 4,192 hits." Are you white? If so, I suspect the question of whether your University (and by association, your State) officially grants a place of honor to an individual who did not acknowledge or respect your basic humanity is probably a little less personal and therefore, might even seem "insane" - to you.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2017 8:13:21 GMT -8
Right, what I was saying is that I don't think we are going to rename all these buildings. We're going to draw a line at what is "too racist." And that, to me, is insane. Either we scrub all names from buildings of people who were sorta racist, or we leave them and make sure to educate everyone about why their name is on the building and why these people were not infallible. I have no problem with leaving someone's name on the building while also mentioning that this person was not without fault. Sort of like allowing Pete Rose into the Hall of Fame, but making sure that on the plaque it says "Pete Rose was a supreme a-hole who bet on his own team. Also collected 4,192 hits." Are you white? If so, I suspect the question of whether your University (and by association, your State) officially grants a place of honor to an individual who did not respect your basic humanity is probably a little less personal and could even seem "insane" - to you. MLK was a plagiarist and adulterer and he physically abused women. He was no saint. Let's get rid of all references to EVERY mythical hero, since they ALL have flaws, starting with that guy. Or is it politically incorrect for me to point out MLK's flaws? Do we make an exception for YOUR favorite people? Let's take 'em all down or take none down. And who are you to be pointing fingers? Don't you also live in a glass house?
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Post by Werebeaver on Sept 25, 2017 8:16:02 GMT -8
Are you white? If so, I suspect the question of whether your University (and by association, your State) officially grants a place of honor to an individual who did not respect your basic humanity is probably a little less personal and could even seem "insane" - to you. MLK was a plagiarist and adulterer and he physically abused women. He was no saint. Let's get rid of all references to EVERY mythical hero, since they ALL have flaws, starting with that guy. Or is it politically incorrect for me to point out MLK's flaws? Do we make an exception for YOUR favorite people? Let's take 'em all down or take none down. And who are you to be pointing fingers? Don't you also live in a glass house? I will let your response stand on its own - without comment. If that's what MLK's life means to you so be it. Thanks for your candor.
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