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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on May 6, 2017 11:49:48 GMT -8
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Post by blackbug on May 6, 2017 12:21:50 GMT -8
Good pick up!
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Post by baseba1111 on May 6, 2017 12:37:01 GMT -8
Dranatic improvement vs Pac12 since GA... really? |
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Post by jdogge on May 6, 2017 15:39:47 GMT -8
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Post by spudbeaver on May 7, 2017 10:04:37 GMT -8
I would certainly welcome the next Piscatelli or Afalava!! So welcome kid!
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Post by obf on May 8, 2017 9:29:53 GMT -8
Dranatic improvement vs Pac12 since GA... really? I am skeptical of the statement as well... However, he gave a specific "objective" (nothing in recruiting is objective) reason for the statement. And as the guy who follows these things closer than any of us (since it is his job) I'll defer to his observations. His evidence? The other suitors for our recruits. For Nemec, it is meaningful that we are beating out other Pac-12 schools for recruits with some regularity now (granted only the "lower tier" Pac-12 schools, WSU, Colorado, etc.), instead of the more usual recruiting "battles" we used to have vs the mid majors( Nevada, SJSU, BSU, etc) and would lose to them often as well! He further clarified in the comments: So, is it meaningful? I dunno... Our ranking nationally and in the Pac-12 hasn't changed much... Of course there could be a "rising tide floats all boats" thing going on as well, as other posters have pointed out the Pac-12 in general has increased their recruiting maybe? So what do you think, baseba1111, and everyone else? Have we been competing with other Pac-12 teams for recruits more? Is that meaningful? |
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Post by baseba1111 on May 8, 2017 9:43:35 GMT -8
Dranatic improvement vs Pac12 since GA... really? I am skeptical of the statement as well... However, he gave a specific "objective" (nothing in recruiting is objective) reason for the statement. And as the guy who follows these things closer than any of us (since it is his job) I'll defer to his observations. His evidence? The other suitors for our recruits. For Nemec, it is meaningful that we are beating out other Pac-12 schools for recruits with some regularity now (granted only the "lower tier" Pac-12 schools, WSU, Colorado, etc.), instead of the more usual recruiting "battles" we used to have vs the mid majors( Nevada, SJSU, BSU, etc) and would lose to them often as well! He further clarified in the comments: So, is it meaningful? I dunno... Our ranking nationally and in the Pac-12 hasn't changed much... Of course there could be a "rising tide floats all boats" thing going on as well, as other posters have pointed out the Pac-12 in general has increased their recruiting maybe? So what do you think, baseba1111, and everyone else? Have we been competing with other Pac-12 teams for recruits more? Is that meaningful? ONE of the issues with the recruiting numbers is not "who you're beating out", it's "who you're beating them out for". It's completely bogus that were beating out the schools above us for key prime time recruits. It seems every time I see a new commit we're seeing DB or WR. It seems we're not beating anyone out for stud OL, DL, QBs in a number that matters. The other portion of Nemec's propaganda is that just because a school is listed on a commits profile doesn't mean we beat a particular school for the kid. There is not always been an offer. And, if offered it could have been conditional of other "gets" that came thru for the school. Some schools listed have not been in contact with a kid for months. Recruiting sites, talking heads are a completely fabricated industry. Most have never ever seen hide nor hair of the kids they see nor the competition they play against. It's a bunch of guys who regurgitate info and it matters little if they are wrong. All that matters is the time the kid signs then actually contributes on the field and in the classroom. Until then all the talk is just that... words meaning zip. |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on May 8, 2017 9:44:05 GMT -8
The 2 year window thing says to me he was making a GA vs GA recruiting comment and that he's happy were back to getting competitive in the league recruiting thing.
I do think you're onto something with that rising tide for the league comment. Bottom line, even if we somehow get to where we're ranked 15th nationally, if we're ranked 11th or 12th in the Pac 12 and the rest of the league is tearing it up, it's going to be difficult to get enough wins to make it to a bowl game.
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Post by obf on May 8, 2017 13:13:53 GMT -8
ONE of the issues with the recruiting numbers is not "who you're beating out", it's "who you're beating them out for". It's completely bogus that were beating out the schools above us for key prime time recruits. It seems every time I see a new commit we're seeing DB or WR. It seems we're not beating anyone out for stud OL, DL, QBs in a number that matters. The other portion of Nemec's propaganda is that just because a school is listed on a commits profile doesn't mean we beat a particular school for the kid. There is not always been an offer. And, if offered it could have been conditional of other "gets" that came thru for the school. Some schools listed have not been in contact with a kid for months. Recruiting sites, talking heads are a completely fabricated industry. Most have never ever seen hide nor hair of the kids they see nor the competition they play against. It's a bunch of guys who regurgitate info and it matters little if they are wrong. All that matters is the time the kid signs then actually contributes on the field and in the classroom. Until then all the talk is just that... words meaning zip. Yup, sure, the whole recruiting industry is just a made up, money making machine... agreed. But of course you can't say we are doing poorly in recruiting using that made up systems metrics to support that and then dismiss the same made up systems other metrics (commits other schools interested lists). Seems a little circular... Of if you are going to base your opinions on your well informed observations instead (which is perfectly fine), then seems like you would lend some weight to other guys' well informed observations (like Nemecs, or Ochos, or the majority of folks who think GA has done a fine job recruiting so far, and is hopefully getting even better) I agree that, especially QB, is a key position that Andersen has yet to recruit well to, and maybe that one deficiency un does any good recruiting he has done elsewhere... Of course I would say we already HAVE a good QB.... one GA is trying his darndest to ignore  We seem to concentrate on JC for our linemen... I do NOT like that approach, but it seems to be purposeful... Not sure I could tell you why, other than to guess that maybe a 20 year old lineman has passed a few more physical maturity tests than an 18 year old dough boy with good recruiting numbers??? not sure Not sure why you would not like seeing us winning DB and WR recruiting battles.... Other than lineman they are the life blood of a college team. If I had to rank where I want my best players/recruits to be it would be Linemen > DB/WR > QB > LB > RB > Other. Think about some of the WR we have had in the past that pretty much carried the team.... Cooks, Rodgers, Stroughter, Hass, Ocho, Hous, etc, etc. You can be unimpressed by winning battles for those guys, but I am very excited to see guys like Isiah Hodgins and Christian Wallace... I think both of those guys will be VERY good next year. Maybe Nemec's original assertion was overly enthusiastic ("Dramatic improvement"), but, at least IMHO, the idea the recruiting has improved (especially over 2014/2015) under GA the last couple years is not hyperbole at all... |
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Post by obf on May 8, 2017 13:25:32 GMT -8
The 2 year window thing says to me he was making a GA vs GA recruiting comment and that he's happy were back to getting competitive in the league recruiting thing.I do think you're onto something with that rising tide for the league comment. Bottom line, even if we somehow get to where we're ranked 15th nationally, if we're ranked 11th or 12th in the Pac 12 and the rest of the league is tearing it up, it's going to be difficult to get enough wins to make it to a bowl game. This is a good point... Nemec never says from WHAT he sees improvement... 2014 and 2015 were very poor recruiting years... especially 2015 as we were transitioning from Riley to GA in the heart of the recruiting period (ranking #70 on rivals lowest in the last decade or so). 2014 was also pretty poor (again using rivals: #54). So, again, this doesn't need to be a MR vs GA thing... I am happy to see GA just improve on himself! Just another note on the trustworthiness of these types of metrics, sites and rankings... The numbers change constantly! Even years after the fact! It just throws even more shade on an already shady industry, none of these metrics are trustworthy at all... a few months ago I put together a list of OSU's rankings from the three major sites (Rivals, Scout, 24/7), for all the years available, and looking at it and the current sites, half the numbers are different, smh... For instance the 2014 rank on Rivals went from 50 a few months ago to 54 today... Uhhh... what am I missing why did a THREE year old ranking change??? |
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Post by ochobeavo on May 8, 2017 13:43:56 GMT -8
The 2 year window thing says to me he was making a GA vs GA recruiting comment and that he's happy were back to getting competitive in the league recruiting thing.I do think you're onto something with that rising tide for the league comment. Bottom line, even if we somehow get to where we're ranked 15th nationally, if we're ranked 11th or 12th in the Pac 12 and the rest of the league is tearing it up, it's going to be difficult to get enough wins to make it to a bowl game. This is a good point... Nemec never says from WHAT he sees improvement... 2014 and 2015 were very poor recruiting years... especially 2015 as we were transitioning from Riley to GA in the heart of the recruiting period (ranking #70 on rivals lowest in the last decade or so). 2014 was also pretty poor (again using rivals: #54). So, again, this doesn't need to be a MR vs GA thing... I am happy to see GA just improve on himself! Just another note on the trustworthiness of these types of metrics, sites and rankings... The numbers change constantly! Even years after the fact! It just throws even more shade on an already shady industry, none of these metrics are trustworthy at all... a few months ago I put together a list of OSU's rankings from the three major sites (Rivals, Scout, 24/7), for all the years available, and looking at it and the current sites, half the numbers are different, smh... For instance the 2014 rank on Rivals went from 50 a few months ago to 54 today... Uhhh... what am I missing why did a THREE year old ranking change??? Not only were 2014 and 2015 poor, but the 2013 class ended up being brutal from a pure numbers standpoint. Luckily Harlow and Steven Nelson helped it from being a complete cluster. Our marquee name on signing day was Dashon Hunt who medically retired. Damien Haskins - Medical Darrell Songy - Dismissed Justin Strong - Dismissed or transferred out Walter Jones - Quit to focus on track Lawrence Mattison - DNQ Terin Solomon - showed up in the fall and then quit Kyle Kempt -Transferred Lyndon Tulimasaeli - DNQ Charlie Tuaau - DNQ Kyle Peko - Took the long way but made it on the field! Michael Greer - quit Those who remained- some solid contributors: Bolden, Villy, Jarmon, Hungalu, Titus Failauga, Fred Lauina, Brandon Arnold. anyhow, you get a couple classes like that and all of the sudden you have no depth and find yourself drinking alone. |
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Post by obf on May 8, 2017 14:18:29 GMT -8
Not only were 2014 and 2015 poor, but the 2013 class ended up being brutal from a pure numbers standpoint. Luckily Harlow and Steven Nelson helped it from being a complete cluster. anyhow, you get a couple classes like that and all of the sudden you have no depth and find yourself drinking alone. And once again we find yet another way all of these numbers and arguments are silly and moot... 2013 in regards to ranking was our BEST year since 2004! (ok, well, tied with 2007, and depends on ranking service...). Ranking has only a very small, tangential relationship to actual production. Whether it is medical, academic, passion, or false advertising, these stars can go from meaningful to meaningless in the bat of an eye... Anyone remember the 2005 recruiting class?? Well no of course not... We had a 4* commit in Edorian McCullough (high rated DB, didn't end up qualifying academically), and a 4* WR, Ruben Jackson (made it into school, but never did much, a handful of catches for his 2 years here). Both JC transfers IIRC? Anyways, people (including me) were very excited for them and... meh. Of course that was also the year we recruited the 2* Al Afalava, and the 0* Victor Bolden... I sure would love to have carbon copies of those two guys on the team! And to take the LOOOOOOONNNNNGGGGGG road back to the OP... Djibril reminds me a LOT of Al... A little light to play LB, but a missile in pads with a great FB instincts... I could see him playing as a true freshman and being a force as either a light OLB or a big safety. |
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Post by ochobeavo on May 8, 2017 14:31:31 GMT -8
Not only were 2014 and 2015 poor, but the 2013 class ended up being brutal from a pure numbers standpoint. Luckily Harlow and Steven Nelson helped it from being a complete cluster. anyhow, you get a couple classes like that and all of the sudden you have no depth and find yourself drinking alone. And once again we find yet another way all of these numbers and arguments are silly and moot... 2013 in regards to ranking was our BEST year since 2004! (ok, well, tied with 2007, and depends on ranking service...). Ranking has only a very small, tangential relationship to actual production. Whether it is medical, academic, passion, or false advertising, these stars can go from meaningful to meaningless in the bat of an eye... Anyone remember the 2005 recruiting class?? Well no of course not... We had a 4* commit in Edorian McCullough (high rated DB, didn't end up qualifying academically), and a 4* WR, Ruben Jackson (made it into school, but never did much, a handful of catches for his 2 years here). Both JC transfers IIRC? Anyways, people (including me) were very excited for them and... meh. Of course that was also the year we recruited the 2* Al Afalava, and the 0* Victor Bolden... I sure would love to have carbon copies of those two guys on the team! And to take the LOOOOOOONNNNNGGGGGG road back to the OP... Djibril reminds me a LOT of Al... A little light to play LB, but a missile in pads with a great FB instincts... I could see him playing as a true freshman and being a force as either a light OLB or a big safety. Yeah I remembered being very excited about that 2013 class at the time. And Edorian McCullough - good blast from the past! I think they were teammates from CCSF. I don't pay much attention to whether we're ranked 37 or 42 or 51 - but I do put a lot of stock into who else offered... and circling this back to Nemec, I'd agree that we seem to be incrementally winning more of those battles and there does seem to be some improvement over those 2014-2015 classes (thought it's a fairly low bar to start with!). I wouldn't trust Nemec as an evaluator, but he is in a lot of direct contact with the kids and HS coaches and he has said multiple times that there is a lot of positive feedback and momentum building in Corvallis. (And he's a duck grad). Does it translate to signing day? We shall see. Sure wouldn't hurt if we'd go out and win a bunch of games to start the season off this fall! |
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Post by blackbug on May 9, 2017 11:32:29 GMT -8
I took a look at what was reported for who we recruited against for the past 15 years sometime ago. The last 2 classes have average about 2 more highly recruited players than about 5 years ago. There is some progress there, hopefully it continues to improve. The highly recruited player was any player with offers from more than 1 other power 5 team and/or an offer from a team that almost always beats us out in recruiting head to head.
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Post by nforkbeav on May 9, 2017 11:40:43 GMT -8
I took a look at what was reported for who we recruited against for the past 15 years sometime ago. The last 2 classes have average about 2 more highly recruited players than about 5 years ago. There is some progress there, hopefully it continues to improve. The highly recruited player was any player with offers from more than 1 other power 5 team and/or an offer from a team that almost always beats us out in recruiting head to head. Let's keep in mind Nall, Poyer, James Rodgers, and Mike Hass wouldn't be considered "highly recruited players". GA deserves the benefit of the doubt for now that some of his under the radar recruits become the next guy added to the list above. We should know by this season or next since we could see the above players in year 2 or 3 were something special. |
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