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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Mar 9, 2024 10:57:15 GMT -8
To beaverinohio: The only reason I mentioned getting close to the NIT was to try to show the team had been much more competitive under Tinkle. Now I will get more specific. Prior to the arrival of Tinkle, the last time OSU won 15 or more games two seasons in a row was in the '88 and '89 seasons. Enter Tinkle. His seasons up through the elite 8 season: 17 wins, 19 wins (with the 1st NCAA tournament appearance in years), 5 wins, 16 wins, 18 wins, 18 wins (in a shortened postseason) , 20 wins and an elite 8 appearance. He took a traditionally horrible school with one of the lowest recruiting budgets in P5/6 basketball to where it had just 1 losing record in 7 seasons, while being quite competitive. At the time there were literally dozens of coaches getting paid more than he was earning. How many were doing worse and on the verge of being fired? More research than I care to do at the moment, but I suspect there were some. I also suspect there were some AD's at the time who respected his work at Montana and what he had done at OSU in making the team significantly more competitive. By 2021 it was not just top schools paying 2.2+ million a year. For the '21 season there were 38 coaches making 3 million plus a year www.usatoday.com/picture-gallery/sports/ncaab/2022/03/11/ncaa-mens-basketball-highest-paid-coaches-2021-22-season/9424310002/ and who knows how many making 2.3 million plus. How many NCAA coaches other than Tinkle weren't coming off an elite 8 season? Seven. Coming of an elite 8 appearance, and with what had been a very positive job at OSU considering the actual backing the program had been receiving, there could have been a school or two out there with some interest. I'd have to question dismissing that possibility. You are focusing at the overall win record and the conference record, and completely overlooking any context of how he had changed the program as of March/April of 2021 when the extension occurred. No way he's getting that offer today, but in terms of April 2021, it was possible. |
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Post by Judge Smails on Mar 9, 2024 12:31:04 GMT -8
I think it's important to look at what was going on at OSU before Tinkle arrived. If you are concerned about conference wins, like speakthetruth is, then historically, Robinson had 2 8-win seasons, John had 1 8-win season, and Tinkle has had 1 8-win, 1 9-win, and 2 10-win seasons. That's the best we've seen here Miller and Anderson. But that doesn't mean that we fans don't deserve better because we do. We definitely do. But basketball ends up being a low priority sport. Football and Baseball, Women's Basketball and Gymnastics all take top billing. So MBB at OSU needs revitalization. Perhaps that means money. Maybe it means marketing. Who knows? I just don't think OSU sees MBB as important enough to throw money and time at it. Would Tinkle have been a better coach with more resources? I think an argument could be made that he might have been. I think he did his best under the circumstances, and if the 21-22 season had not occurred, he could have left here with his head held high. Your “top billing” sports except football all lose money. With baseball and women’s basketball leading the way. If those are our priorities at the expense of Men’s BB that makes money and could make a lot more, we need to fire everyone in the AD office. That would be bad business. |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Mar 9, 2024 12:48:36 GMT -8
I think it's important to look at what was going on at OSU before Tinkle arrived. If you are concerned about conference wins, like speakthetruth is, then historically, Robinson had 2 8-win seasons, John had 1 8-win season, and Tinkle has had 1 8-win, 1 9-win, and 2 10-win seasons. That's the best we've seen here Miller and Anderson. But that doesn't mean that we fans don't deserve better because we do. We definitely do. But basketball ends up being a low priority sport. Football and Baseball, Women's Basketball and Gymnastics all take top billing. So MBB at OSU needs revitalization. Perhaps that means money. Maybe it means marketing. Who knows? I just don't think OSU sees MBB as important enough to throw money and time at it. Would Tinkle have been a better coach with more resources? I think an argument could be made that he might have been. I think he did his best under the circumstances, and if the 21-22 season had not occurred, he could have left here with his head held high. Your “top billing” sports except football all lose money. With baseball and women’s basketball leading the way. If those are our priorities at the expense of Men’s BB that makes money and could make a lot more, we need to fire everyone in the AD office. That would be bad business. It's been bad business for a long time at OSU. Not sure that it's been that way under Barnes though. At one point in the Riley years it was pretty clear football's success led to investment in the non-revenue programs over continuing to build football and basketball. There have been a lot of tough choices to make. |
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Post by TheGlove on Mar 9, 2024 14:31:40 GMT -8
Would be an upgrade hire btw. disagree |
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Post by irimi on Mar 9, 2024 15:07:23 GMT -8
I think it's important to look at what was going on at OSU before Tinkle arrived. If you are concerned about conference wins, like speakthetruth is, then historically, Robinson had 2 8-win seasons, John had 1 8-win season, and Tinkle has had 1 8-win, 1 9-win, and 2 10-win seasons. That's the best we've seen here Miller and Anderson. But that doesn't mean that we fans don't deserve better because we do. We definitely do. But basketball ends up being a low priority sport. Football and Baseball, Women's Basketball and Gymnastics all take top billing. So MBB at OSU needs revitalization. Perhaps that means money. Maybe it means marketing. Who knows? I just don't think OSU sees MBB as important enough to throw money and time at it. Would Tinkle have been a better coach with more resources? I think an argument could be made that he might have been. I think he did his best under the circumstances, and if the 21-22 season had not occurred, he could have left here with his head held high. Your “top billing” sports except football all lose money. With baseball and women’s basketball leading the way. If those are our priorities at the expense of Men’s BB that makes money and could make a lot more, we need to fire everyone in the AD office. That would be bad business. I don't either agree or disagree with what you've written. I don't know what sports in general look like at other universities in terms of making a profit or not. I assume that Football and Men's Basketball make a profit solely based upon the TV deals which are negotiated. None of the others have the TV coverage or perhaps interest, though baseball seems to be heading in that direction.
But it's not just the money. It's the marketing and advertising. Perhaps this is just my view because I don't closely follow basketball since it has been bad for so long. I don't know what OSU could do to promote and improve the basketball situation in Corvallis, but something is wrong and it needs fixing.
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Post by Judge Smails on Mar 9, 2024 15:11:41 GMT -8
Your “top billing” sports except football all lose money. With baseball and women’s basketball leading the way. If those are our priorities at the expense of Men’s BB that makes money and could make a lot more, we need to fire everyone in the AD office. That would be bad business. I don't either agree or disagree with what you've written. I don't know what sports in general look like at other universities in terms of making a profit or not. I assume that Football and Men's Basketball make a profit solely based upon the TV deals which are negotiated. None of the others have the TV coverage or perhaps interest, though baseball seems to be heading in that direction.
But it's not just the money. It's the marketing and advertising. Perhaps this is just my view because I don't closely follow basketball since it has been bad for so long. I don't know what OSU could do to promote and improve the basketball situation in Corvallis, but something is wrong and it needs fixing.
We’ve been bad for so long that I’m not sure we have any big $$ basketball boosters left. |
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Post by irimi on Mar 9, 2024 15:19:43 GMT -8
I don't either agree or disagree with what you've written. I don't know what sports in general look like at other universities in terms of making a profit or not. I assume that Football and Men's Basketball make a profit solely based upon the TV deals which are negotiated. None of the others have the TV coverage or perhaps interest, though baseball seems to be heading in that direction.
But it's not just the money. It's the marketing and advertising. Perhaps this is just my view because I don't closely follow basketball since it has been bad for so long. I don't know what OSU could do to promote and improve the basketball situation in Corvallis, but something is wrong and it needs fixing.
We’ve been bad for so long that I’m not sure we have any big $$ basketball boosters left. So I'm suggesting that other things need to change first. The program needs rejuvenation. The money will come, I think, when there's clear direction. |
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Post by Judge Smails on Mar 9, 2024 15:22:07 GMT -8
We’ve been bad for so long that I’m not sure we have any big $$ basketball boosters left. So I'm suggesting that other things need to change first. The program needs rejuvenation. The money will come, I think, when there's clear direction. Yes, but you need $$ to buyout WT to get the rejuvenation. |
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Post by beaverinohio on Mar 9, 2024 15:53:13 GMT -8
To beaverinohio: The only reason I mentioned getting close to the NIT was to try to show the team had been much more competitive under Tinkle. Now I will get more specific. Prior to the arrival of Tinkle, the last time OSU won 15 or more games two seasons in a row was in the '88 and '89 seasons. Enter Tinkle. His seasons up through the elite 8 season: 17 wins, 19 wins (with the 1st NCAA tournament appearance in years), 5 wins, 16 wins, 18 wins, 18 wins (in a shortened postseason) , 20 wins and an elite 8 appearance. He took a traditionally horrible school with one of the lowest recruiting budgets in P5/6 basketball to where it had just 1 losing record in 7 seasons, while being quite competitive. At the time there were literally dozens of coaches getting paid more than he was earning. How many were doing worse and on the verge of being fired? More research than I care to do at the moment, but I suspect there were some. I also suspect there were some AD's at the time who respected his work at Montana and what he had done at OSU in making the team significantly more competitive. By 2021 it was not just top schools paying 2.2+ million a year. For the '21 season there were 38 coaches making 3 million plus a year www.usatoday.com/picture-gallery/sports/ncaab/2022/03/11/ncaa-mens-basketball-highest-paid-coaches-2021-22-season/9424310002/ and who knows how many making 2.3 million plus. How many NCAA coaches other than Tinkle weren't coming off an elite 8 season? Seven. Coming of an elite 8 appearance, and with what had been a very positive job at OSU considering the actual backing the program had been receiving, there could have been a school or two out there with some interest. I'd have to question dismissing that possibility. You are focusing at the overall win record and the conference record, and completely overlooking any context of how he had changed the program as of March/April of 2021 when the extension occurred. No way he's getting that offer today, but in terms of April 2021, it was possible. I’m not completely overlooking the context. Yes, WT steadied the ship and I’m sure that would be a plus in the eyes of ADs. But you are trying to completely downplay the overall and conference records. And I can guarantee ADs and boosters are not going to downplay those when hiring someone. The E8 was great and certainly elevates things, but I can’t imagine it was near enough. You can expand the list to any P6 hire in last 20 years, and like I said I don’t think you’ll find any of those had winning percentages like Tinkle’s then. It just doesn’t happen. But I don’t think I’ll convince you of that. You wrote this: “At the time there were literally dozens of coaches getting paid more than he was earning. How many were doing worse and on the verge of being fired? More research than I care to do at the moment, but I suspect there were some.” I did the research awhile ago when someone else said the extension was needed not to lose WT. I mentioned in my previous post that if you dig around in my previous posts you’ll find it. If I remember correctly, there were 6 jobs that opened that offseason that financially fit criteria. I think only 1 of those — think it was Oklahoma — might have considered Tinkle. But I doubt it considering the opening was because Lon Kruger retired and while WT was at OSU, Lon took the Sooners to 5 NCAA Tournaments, a Final Four and a S16. Just don’t see them turning to Tinkle even with the E8. |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Mar 9, 2024 16:51:52 GMT -8
As far as extensions go, Hopkins hasn't won 18 games in a season since the 2018 season. He hasn't showed a real reason to get an extension. Tinkle in the other hand won 18 games in the '18 ans '19 seasons and then had the elite 8 season the following season... then extension.... didn't turn out well, but it wasn't far-fetched at the time. Another thing, in the ladt 6 seasons at UW, Hopkins won fewer games that the previous season 3 separate times, if they lose out it'll be 4 out of 7 seasons that he has had a worse season record than the year before. For the "trend" lovers, that's not a lot to get excited about. Tinkle has had a worse season record than the previous season only twice in 10 years...those drops were doozies, but have been followed by improving records (not in as big of leaps as many hope) at least. Stop making sense. Hopkins never showed any reason to be extended after his second year. Tinkle did. |
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Post by 86BEAVER on Mar 9, 2024 18:40:58 GMT -8
We need to hire a hype man for Tinkle. Maybe we'll get lucky like we did with McKay and someone somewhere else will want him?
BTW...the Elite Eight run happened at a very strange time with circumstances that were at least as responsible as WT was.
Oh, and we had Ethan Thompson as well, much more capable of placing the mediocrity of others on his shoulders and carrying it for awhile than anyone on the roster currently.
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Post by irimi on Mar 9, 2024 19:44:31 GMT -8
So I'm suggesting that other things need to change first. The program needs rejuvenation. The money will come, I think, when there's clear direction. Yes, but you need $$ to buyout WT to get the rejuvenation. Right. So the end of this season will show whether OSU cares enough to try to get rid of Tinkle or just ride him out another year. I suspect it will be the latter because we don't have the drive to rejuvenate the program. Perhaps, as you noted, since the other programs are money-losers, we can't lose money in MBB.
I don't know the answers. I just see OSU sitting on their hands.
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