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Post by 56chevy on Feb 22, 2020 16:33:28 GMT -8
"MC has 3.5 y ears of head-coaching experience, at a level higher than DI. This is not his first rodeo." IMO, coaching minor league baseball is a far, far cry from D1baseball. MC has NO prior experience coaching college ball and, again IMO, unfortunately it's showing. I don't know about that. Maybe he is viewing this first month as a time to figure out what he's got and developing it. If I remember right, Mitch has more experience winning NCAA National Championships than the esteemed Mississippi State program in their entire history. I would be a bit surprised if they don't have a pretty solid plan by the time Pac-12 play starts in three weeks.
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Post by baseba1111 on Feb 22, 2020 16:36:42 GMT -8
Well Henry, I see you've realized that the score was 1-0 MSU, not 4-0, when Claunch led off with a single. Rather, you're claiming now that it's a waste to have your #5 hitter bunt after a leadoff single. Well you're entitled to your opinion, but when the batter following Claunch's single had a batting average of .000 (zero AB this season for Harvey), just maybe a bunt would have been in order....ya' think?? And "bailing after five games"?? Well, speak for yourself, but (IMO) valid criticism of decisions by an inexperienced head coach is just making clear what, again IMO, is the obvious truth. If MC starts to show some real insight I'll be the first to compliment him. Has nothing to do bailing or not bailing. Unless it is very late in the game, and you're bunting to get a runner from second to third in a no-out situation, analytics have proven pretty much beyond the shadow of a doubt that it's the waste of an out with a position player batting. Especially on the road, trailing, in the second inning. MC has 3.5 y ears of head-coaching experience, at a level higher than DI. This is not his first rodeo. MiLB is in no way a level higher. It's a completely different animal. Being a D1 HC in no way mirrors being a minor league manager. This has been discussed by numerous posters. Some with actual knowledge of the intricacies. You keep spouting they are the same and thus keep illuminating us to your ignorance of the basic concepts of either. And, in a 1-0 game, team BA hovering around .260, facing a top 10 team on the road it's not a wasted out if executed. Moving a runner is never a wasted out. Ks are wasted outs. Hey, but way to chime in a timely manner on such an important point! As is the case with the majority of your posts. Nit pick in areas of little importance yet consistently think your opinion is correct. Guess what it is not. It's not only an JUST an opinion, but one with little (I'm guessing almost zero) actual experience in competitive ball/coaching. But, then again it hasn't stopped you from being the "expert" in almost every area of this board. Oh... please favor us with one of your witty responses that typically favor some childish variant on "same to you but more of it."
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Post by mbabeav on Feb 22, 2020 16:38:18 GMT -8
How did this become one-and-done with no return visit? Sounds like a Bob DeCarolis thing to do. my guess is that weather has a play in this since the Corvallis weather in Feb & Mar is not great for baseball....I doubt MSU would venture our way in April thru May We had better weather yesterday than they did, and identical (hit 60f in Corvallis today) today.
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Post by chinmusic on Feb 22, 2020 16:41:19 GMT -8
"Come, let us reason together"
Critical thinking serves us better than emotional response. The discussion needs to be about what the plan is for developing and improving our team, not going over the side or opening parachutes. Let's talk about our strengths and deficiencies right now, lineup assembly, game strategy, it's all there for discussion.
Second guessing should be welcome as long as you back it up with facts and logic. Share your thoughts and concerns, but understand we've played 6 games in a 55 game season. It's way to early to abandon ship or write anything off. It's been noted here, our team is relatively young, we are playing inexperienced freshman, and a slow start with this schedule might be anticipated. We play five of the nations Top-25 teams including 4 on the road.
Canham and Dorman are playing their guys, looking and evaluating. They didn't coach the returners or recruit the freshman class. They are getting acquainted with their team in competition, They have to evaluate. Input from Bailey and Gipson is invaluable but they need to see for themselves. The process is frustrating but necessary. Be patient with the young Beavs, I think you have to accept it wasn't a re-load last year, Bales was in the first year of a re-build. For the most part, we emptied the tank (sans Rutschman) following 2018.
Coley, Tanselli, Riley, Casey, Bailey and now Canham - there have been a few "ups and downs" along the way. Outstanding programs experience that. Alabama football between Bear Bryant and Nick Saban had a few, USC football between John McKay and Helton have had a few, UCLA basketball since John Wooden have had a few. Some say it's easier to get to the top than to stay there. Enjoy the climb back up to the top.
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Post by 56chevy on Feb 22, 2020 16:47:01 GMT -8
Unless it is very late in the game, and you're bunting to get a runner from second to third in a no-out situation, analytics have proven pretty much beyond the shadow of a doubt that it's the waste of an out with a position player batting. Especially on the road, trailing, in the second inning. MC has 3.5 y ears of head-coaching experience, at a level higher than DI. This is not his first rodeo. MiLB is in no way a level higher. It's a completely different animal. Being a D1 HC in no way mirrors being a minor league manager. This has been discussed by numerous posters. Some with actual knowledge of the intricacies. You keep spouting they are the same and thus keep illuminating us to your ignorance of the basic concepts of either. And, in a 1-0 game, team BA hovering around .260, facing a top 10 team on the road it's not a wasted out if executed. Moving a runner is never a wasted out. Ks are wasted outs. Hey, but way to chime in a timely manner on such an important point! As is the case with the majority of your posts. Nit pick in areas of little importance yet consistently think your opinion is correct. Guess what it is not. It's not only an JUST an opinion, but one with little (I'm guessing almost zero) actual experience in competitive ball/coaching. But, then again it hasn't stopped you from being the "expert" in almost every area of this board. Oh... please favor us with one of your witty responses that typically favor some childish variant on "same to you but more of it." Those were not very nice comments.:-(
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Post by beaver94 on Feb 22, 2020 16:57:36 GMT -8
MiLB is in no way a level higher. It's a completely different animal. Being a D1 HC in no way mirrors being a minor league manager. This has been discussed by numerous posters. Some with actual knowledge of the intricacies. You keep spouting they are the same and thus keep illuminating us to your ignorance of the basic concepts of either. And, in a 1-0 game, team BA hovering around .260, facing a top 10 team on the road it's not a wasted out if executed. Moving a runner is never a wasted out. Ks are wasted outs. Hey, but way to chime in a timely manner on such an important point! As is the case with the majority of your posts. Nit pick in areas of little importance yet consistently think your opinion is correct. Guess what it is not. It's not only an JUST an opinion, but one with little (I'm guessing almost zero) actual experience in competitive ball/coaching. But, then again it hasn't stopped you from being the "expert" in almost every area of this board. Oh... please favor us with one of your witty responses that typically favor some childish variant on "same to you but more of it." Those were not very nice comments.:-( And basically described him self with a lot of the post.
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billsaab
Freshman
Retired. Live in SW Washington on 73/4 Acres.
Posts: 589
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Post by billsaab on Feb 22, 2020 17:10:07 GMT -8
Once again it seems some are patient and some notice some obvious things. Funny but I did not follow the game after it got 4-0. I do not feel right now that we are very good. We were 2-2 against Mtn West Teams. Last Year the shine came off against Nevada. This Year 2-4 has taken it off as well. I cannot say for sure what is wrong except we are not hitting well and fail to move runners. Maybe we can salvage a game. Nowhere near a top 25 Team right now.
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Post by abureid on Feb 22, 2020 17:27:07 GMT -8
We are adept a getting runners on base, but struggle with advancing them. It seems like our best teams always had productive outs, this team not so much. Creating runs requires productive outs. K’s with men on base are killers, got to put the ball in play
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Post by chinmusic on Feb 22, 2020 17:28:23 GMT -8
How is it showing?
Canham played about 230 college games under Pat Casey. Did he learn nothing? Is he a slow learner? Suffers from memory loss?
He's stayed in touch with PC since he left OSU in 2007. He talks with PC almost daily at OSU. He works with Gipson, Bailey and Rodriguez.
He spent 3 years managing Class A ball, those rosters are full of drafted college players. He should have some idea of what a good college player looks like.
Granted Pro ball is different. They play to a different set of beliefs than college baseball does. Differing philosophy with pitching, offense, tactics and strategy. Pro coaches will make adjustments coming to the college game. College coaches aren't faced with that kind of transition since, with a few exceptions, the Pros don't hire college coaches to manage MLB teams.
Is Canham trying to win these early games? Of course he is. Is he making every move possible to win or is seeing and evaluating his roster play in competition a top priority prior to Conference play? OSU players are undergoing game by game examination. He's learning about his team.
We made a coaching change.
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Post by giantkillers83 on Feb 22, 2020 19:04:03 GMT -8
It’s going to be a challenging year. Really, the difficulties at plate go back to last year. Mitch had nothing to do with that. We have too many unproductive outs. Giving up walks doesn’t help.
It’s going to be an adjustment with Mitch.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Feb 22, 2020 19:07:42 GMT -8
College season: 56 games. Class A season: 144 games.
Canham managed the equivalent of 7+ college seasons in 3+ years of professional baseball. Once the game starts, college and pro baseball are played by almost identical rules. I think he knows what he is doing. He is not an inexperienced coach.
In every sport, the professional level is considered higher than the amateur level, for players and coaches.
And study upon study has proven that over the long haul, a sac bunt reduces your chances of scoring, and reduces your chances of a big inning. The numbers do not lie.
Yes, strikeouts are wasted outs too. So 7-11, why don't you just tell the coach when a guy is going to strike out, before he comes to bat, so he can know to bunt instead. What if Harvey had hit a two-run homer? Would you still be complaining that he didn't bunt?
And 7-11, please tell us all the details of your lengthy and successful career as a pro, college or high school coach.
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Post by baseba1111 on Feb 22, 2020 19:57:54 GMT -8
College season: 56 games. Class A season: 144 games. Canham managed the equivalent of 7+ college seasons in 3+ years of professional baseball. Once the game starts, college and pro baseball are played by almost identical rules. I think he knows what he is doing. He is not an inexperienced coach. In every sport, the professional level is considered higher than the amateur level, for players and coaches. And study upon study has proven that over the long haul, a sac bunt reduces your chances of scoring, and reduces your chances of a big inning. The numbers do not lie. Yes, strikeouts are wasted outs too. So 7-11, why don't you just tell the coach when a guy is going to strike out, before he comes to bat, so he can know to bunt instead. What if Harvey had hit a two-run homer? Would you still be complaining that he didn't bunt? And 7-11, please tell us all the details of your lengthy and successful career as a pro, college or high school coach. You seem to confuse many, many things trying to make your, what? Defense? Point? # of games in a different environment = more experience. Too many examples to even mention to prove that bogus. Rules, rule differences ever mentioned. EVER. Again just made up for ?? Higher level... in terms of playing? Yep. But, as were talking coaching vs managing one is not really equivalent hence not "higher". Different in multiple ways. Studies say reduced chance of scoring. Overall expected runs do go down when compiled over an entire data set... season or seasons. But, in a game by game situation the number of ways to score a runner from 2nd rather than 1st is increased depending on pitcher, hitter, and their current stats. It's a huge part of the college game for several reasons. Reduce big innings. Just a made up item. No one mentioned bunting for a big inning. This team struggles to create runs. The comment was to create A RUN. So in your own lame words, why don't you just tell us when those big innings are coming and we'll eschew the bunt and fans the wondering! Lol Hmmmm... another paragraph of nonsense. Too? Bunts move runners, not wasted in a tight game. Predicting outcomes? Coaches don't need to be told. You coach by feel and analytics. Analytics of the college game is much different than MiLB that would never bunt. So because the tiny chance of a two run HR you don't bunt? Or, you bunt because it's a much higher percentage to move a runner into scoring position considering the high K rate so far? Let's see what else. Ok, I wasn't complaining about not bunting. I chimed in because you denigrated an opinion, then called bunting wasted outs. Stating your belief as almost certain fact when anyone who watches college ball knows small ball is a huge component. Yet, I'm betting you were probably a fan of small ball as executed by OSU teams for years. Wasted outs, dozens? A hundred of them? As for my "details". Well I actually was involved in all aspects for many years. However, I didn't espouse my personal experience. Just the obvious lack of yours to criticize a simple and quite common opinion of another. Of course giving expert opinions from reading "studies" make that obvious. But... as I've now labored this nit picking too long. You can continue.
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Post by ag87 on Feb 22, 2020 21:45:25 GMT -8
Maybe I'm stupid. . . . . (probably not maybe). My thought is that college infielders have more difficulty getting an out from a bunted ball than pros - even guys at high A ball. All the analytics come from MLB. I think it's a lot different at this level.
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Post by baseba1111 on Feb 22, 2020 22:00:23 GMT -8
Maybe I'm stupid. . . . . (probably not maybe). My thought is that college infielders have more difficulty getting an out from a bunted ball than pros - even guys at high A ball. All the analytics come from MLB. I think it's a lot different at this level. Bunting is far more effective at the college level for multiple reasons. The biggest is indeed the defensive prowess and arms. MLB players are light years better than then average D1 infielder.
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