gzr
Freshman
Posts: 106
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Post by gzr on Mar 16, 2019 12:31:17 GMT -8
With all the angst on these boards about Beaver Basketball, I have to wonder what Beaver Basketball Expectations are , where they came from, and what is realisitic.
As a fan, I want to return to the days of the Orange Express. How likely is that? Very unlikely. What entitlement do we have to reach a level that only UCLA of old and maybe Arizona of semi-old have attained.
Start with the basis that all the teams are tying to compete unlike some leagues where often there are one or two teams competing and dominating and the other guys just show up leading to a self-fulfilling promise of the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Without naming names, many leagues are like that.
If all the teams are trying, what are realistic expectations for any team which tries to run an honest program without the Sam Gilbert effect that UCLA used to gain a huge advantage on the rest of the league.
My expectations start with having a clean program with good citizens who represent the school well. I also expect them to show up every game and compete hard. I expect them to be well-coached, disciplined and unselfish. That alone will lead to lots of wins. I also expect that at OSU and at all of the other schools there will be up years and down years. I do not expect to have a program that is always at the bottom for whatever reason. Mathematically, there should be a kind of randomness to the record depending on the competence of the coaches in actual coaching and recruiting. If a team is consistently in the dumper, then replace the coaching staff and give a new guy his chance.
Once a team gets down and the reputation gets around, it is very hard for a coach to work out of that situation. I look back on the last 30 years of futility and wonder what people have been thinking. We got down and have hired new coaches basically every five years. The first couple years are a fiasco, when an immediate rise to the top doesn't happen, then panic in the fan base and the administration sets in--rinse and repeat.
Why does this happen? My opinion is that it is caused by unrealistic expectations. Everyone wants to win every game, I understand that. Is that going to happen? No. Are we going to ever return to respectability meaning having a chance to be in the hunt from time to time? I doubt that starting over every five years is going to get it done in today's one and done world. A consistent, persistent approach is needed with tempering of expectation at least to the realistic range. If we can not achieve realistic, then by all means make a change and start over, but we all know that has pain built in and risk that the new team will not get it done either.
I think a lot of our school--I think it is an underrated institution. However, I don't see where we are entitled to be at the top of the basketball standings every year. Where did that idea come from?
As I get older, I see today's sport scene more as entertainment than a personal reflection of my worthiness and standing with my peers. The scene is out of control in almost every sport. It is a wild ride. Tempering of expectations seems to be in order at least in this long-time Beaver's opinion.
I would be interested in what other people think.
GZR
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Post by albanianbeav on Mar 16, 2019 15:56:38 GMT -8
With all the angst on these boards about Beaver Basketball, I have to wonder what Beaver Basketball Expectations are , where they came from, and what is realisitic. As a fan, I want to return to the days of the Orange Express. How likely is that? Very unlikely. What entitlement do we have to reach a level that only UCLA of old and maybe Arizona of semi-old have attained. Start with the basis that all the teams are tying to compete unlike some leagues where often there are one or two teams competing and dominating and the other guys just show up leading to a self-fulfilling promise of the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Without naming names, many leagues are like that. If all the teams are trying, what are realistic expectations for any team which tries to run an honest program without the Sam Gilbert effect that UCLA used to gain a huge advantage on the rest of the league. My expectations start with having a clean program with good citizens who represent the school well. I also expect them to show up every game and compete hard. I expect them to be well-coached, disciplined and unselfish. That alone will lead to lots of wins. I also expect that at OSU and at all of the other schools there will be up years and down years. I do not expect to have a program that is always at the bottom for whatever reason. Mathematically, there should be a kind of randomness to the record depending on the competence of the coaches in actual coaching and recruiting. If a team is consistently in the dumper, then replace the coaching staff and give a new guy his chance. Once a team gets down and the reputation gets around, it is very hard for a coach to work out of that situation. I look back on the last 30 years of futility and wonder what people have been thinking. We got down and have hired new coaches basically every five years. The first couple years are a fiasco, when an immediate rise to the top doesn't happen, then panic in the fan base and the administration sets in--rinse and repeat. Why does this happen? My opinion is that it is caused by unrealistic expectations. Everyone wants to win every game, I understand that. Is that going to happen? No. Are we going to ever return to respectability meaning having a chance to be in the hunt from time to time? I doubt that starting over every five years is going to get it done in today's one and done world. A consistent, persistent approach is needed with tempering of expectation at least to the realistic range. If we can not achieve realistic, then by all means make a change and start over, but we all know that has pain built in and risk that the new team will not get it done either. I think a lot of our school--I think it is an underrated institution. However, I don't see where we are entitled to be at the top of the basketball standings every year. Where did that idea come from? As I get older, I see today's sport scene more as entertainment than a personal reflection of my worthiness and standing with my peers. The scene is out of control in almost every sport. It is a wild ride. Tempering of expectations seems to be in order at least in this long-time Beaver's opinion. I would be interested in what other people think. GZR Here are mine, in order; Clean program, Good kids, Out work your competition, Execute a game plan (do your best with what you have), Work to improve year over year (does not mean you get better every year, as you are going to lose studs and step back, but look to improve whatever your current situation is). It is all about the kids in my opinion, giving them a chance to learn and develop doing something they love. The byproduct is entertainment for us. |
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Post by wubeaver2013 on Mar 16, 2019 16:05:31 GMT -8
If Iowa state can consistently get into the ncaa tournament, why can’t oregon state?
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Post by Judge Smails on Mar 16, 2019 16:17:17 GMT -8
We last officially won an NCAA tournament game in 1975, so my expectations are to be better than that.
The Orange Express days were great during the regular season and disappointing in the tourney. I would just like to win an NCAA tourney game for once. That is my expectation.
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Post by baseba1111 on Mar 16, 2019 16:41:26 GMT -8
We last officially won an NCAA tournament game in 1975, so my expectations are to be better than that. The Orange Express days were great during the regular season and disappointing in the tourney. I would just like to win an NCAA tourney game for once. That is my expectation. And to get there fairly regularly to have that happen... more than once! I mean, I made the trip to Vegas over UCLA, as I was thinking a two game run could temper my opinion of WT and his program. I'd love to be able to plan a NCAA trip for OSU being in least a 2nd game... |
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Post by lebaneaver on Mar 16, 2019 16:54:59 GMT -8
If Iowa state can consistently get into the ncaa tournament, why can’t oregon state? Geography plays a HUGE role, in my opinion. Better conference, too, year in and year out. |
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Post by wubeaver2013 on Mar 16, 2019 17:07:09 GMT -8
If Iowa state can consistently get into the ncaa tournament, why can’t oregon state? Geography plays a HUGE role, in my opinion. Better conference, too, year in and year out. Do you mean that there proximity to Chicago makes them more likely to get better recruits than our proximity to LA or Seattle? I guess I don’t see any other geographical benefits? No doubt the past few years the Big12 has been better than the Pac-12, but Iowa state still consistently competes in the Big12 more admirably than us in the Pac-12? I guess I just don’t see it. |
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Post by Judge Smails on Mar 16, 2019 17:35:37 GMT -8
If Iowa state can consistently get into the ncaa tournament, why can’t oregon state? I think they play in Heaven. Huge recruiting advantage. |
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Post by lebaneaver on Mar 16, 2019 17:49:58 GMT -8
Geography plays a HUGE role, in my opinion. Better conference, too, year in and year out. Do you mean that there proximity to Chicago makes them more likely to get better recruits than our proximity to LA or Seattle? I guess I don’t see any other geographical benefits? No doubt the past few years the Big12 has been better than the Pac-12, but Iowa state still consistently competes in the Big12 more admirably than us in the Pac-12? I guess I just don’t see it. [b Really? Iowa is damn near the geographic center of the U.S., and much closer to dense population centers east of the Mississippi. Huge advantages. |
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Post by lebaneaver on Mar 16, 2019 17:52:00 GMT -8
If Iowa state can consistently get into the ncaa tournament, why can’t oregon state? I think they play in Heaven. Huge recruiting advantage. [ 😊. Love THAT movie! “Is this Heaven?” “No.....it’s Iowa.” |
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Post by wubeaver2013 on Mar 16, 2019 17:52:48 GMT -8
Do you mean that there proximity to Chicago makes them more likely to get better recruits than our proximity to LA or Seattle? I guess I don’t see any other geographical benefits? No doubt the past few years the Big12 has been better than the Pac-12, but Iowa state still consistently competes in the Big12 more admirably than us in the Pac-12? I guess I just don’t see it. [b Really? Iowa is damn near the geographic center of the U.S., and much closer to dense population centers east of the Mississippi. Huge advantages. But aren’t there more Div 1 basketball schools then? More recruits, but more schools? You may be right, but I’m not buying it without looking into it more. |
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Post by lebaneaver on Mar 16, 2019 18:05:27 GMT -8
In the age of prime time college basketball on ESPN, etc., the west coast, and more specifically, the less populated regions of the west coast, are at a distinct disadvantage.
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Post by OSUprof on Mar 16, 2019 18:08:52 GMT -8
Beaver fans have to be the most patient in the nation. After all they endured a 28-year losing streak in football and over the last 30 years, have witnessed the fewest winning seasons in men's basketball (6) among the 65 Power 5 programs. Let's wait and see is what I hear a lot or that we're just too poor, too wet or too far from an airport to compete. These are all excuses that are used by the media and the defenders of the status quo that populate our fan base.
The AVERAGE number of winning seasons over the past 30 years for Power 5 men's basketball programs was 21. What's wrong with expecting to be average? Instead, we've had our 7th winning season in the past 31 and the defenders are celebrating!
We are dead last in football spending (65th) and just a few spots off the bottom in men's basketball spending (57th). Yet our total athletic department spending is 44th out of the 65. These schools have less money than OSU:
NC State
Va Tech
Purdue
Oklahoma State
Mississippi State
Rutgers
Boston College
Texas Tech
Syracuse
Kansas State
Georgia Tech
Utah
Vanderbilt
WSU
Iowa State
Wake Forest
The difference is that these institutions all spend more on football and men's basketball than we do despite having less money to spend. So what do we spend the money on? OSU leads the conference in the percentage of funds spent on administration at 50% of the budget. OSU's debt service is $7.5 million per year, less than the conference average and a lot less than Oregon's annual debt service of more than $18 million. OSU spends 26% of the budget on non-revenue sports while our Pac-12 competitors average 28%. We are not too poor to compete!
As hard as it is for me to understand why anyone would chronically under fund the two most important money-making sports, I have an even harder time understanding why Beaver Nation tolerates it.
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Post by lebaneaver on Mar 16, 2019 18:10:13 GMT -8
[b Really? Iowa is damn near the geographic center of the U.S., and much closer to dense population centers east of the Mississippi. Huge advantages. But aren’t there more Div 1 basketball schools then? More recruits, but more schools? You may be right, but I’m not buying it without looking into it more. You make valid points about “more competition” for elite players. I’m making excuses that justify why we can’t get over the hump, but I think they are valid points as well. I set my expectations low, so I stay (somewhat) sane. If the schmucks had to do it w/o Nike....... |
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Post by nexus73 on Mar 16, 2019 18:40:58 GMT -8
Excellent fundamentals, consistently playing with effort, getting the in-state talent that has proven to be a deeper well than one would think, then letting the chips fall where they may, those are my expectations. Had we done just the first two, this season would have seen us win the Pac-12 given how far down it is. If we are playing in a loaded league, a 4th place finish would be acceptable if we were heading to March Madness.
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