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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Feb 10, 2019 23:09:01 GMT -8
and so many non-believers earlier part of the year! What's scary is we let a few games go, record could have been much better Frustrating as it is, the Tinkle era is still a work in progress, with ups and downs. It’s still better than we’ve seen at this school in essentially a generation.
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Post by baseba1111 on Feb 10, 2019 23:31:43 GMT -8
You can pontificate all you want. The "whys" and "wherefores" do not matter. They are wins... they count on the season record according to every organization keeping coaching and school records. Again, like it or not CR not only had (3) 15+ win seasons, he had a 21 win season. Dislike of CR doesn't change facts. Actually, I liked CR. I'd have been OK with him staying if he hadn't lost the team or appeared to have a plan. That said, the current coach was left with little to work with and inherited a 20 year reputation of lack of success. What amazes me is your defense of Robinson OVER any recognition that Tinkle has done at least as good of a job, better if you look at how many starters and experienced players he inherited vs the number Robinson inherited when he replaced coach John. Robinson managed 15 wins in 2 of 6 regular seasons, Tinkle's already done it 3 times in 4 and 2/3rd seasons yet you are continuously berating him. Just odd. Seems like you have an axe to grind. Again... missed point. There was no defense. Already explained, you don't seem to read well. The cupboard wasn't bare. The first 2 seasons had large contributions from "leftovers". They provided 37% of the scoring, 33% of the boards on the tourney team. Not bare... but key performers. "Berating"... funny term that's totally inaccurate and misused. WT gets credit for one key thing... tourney berth. My points about WT are either factual or pretty obvious to those who watch... recruiting has not improved... recruits leaving at a rate that's too high for a team tested 7-10 already in recruiting... player development/schemes not there, not followed or both... W/L record isn't significantly better in a far worse era of Pac12 play. So again, no defense of CR, nor hate of WT. But, dismissing one to "build" up the other has not only been biased, but largely inaccurate.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Feb 11, 2019 0:20:46 GMT -8
Actually, I liked CR. I'd have been OK with him staying if he hadn't lost the team or appeared to have a plan. That said, the current coach was left with little to work with and inherited a 20 year reputation of lack of success. What amazes me is your defense of Robinson OVER any recognition that Tinkle has done at least as good of a job, better if you look at how many starters and experienced players he inherited vs the number Robinson inherited when he replaced coach John. Robinson managed 15 wins in 2 of 6 regular seasons, Tinkle's already done it 3 times in 4 and 2/3rd seasons yet you are continuously berating him. Just odd. Seems like you have an axe to grind. Again... missed point. There was no defense. Already explained, you don't seem to read well. The cupboard wasn't bare. The first 2 seasons had large contributions from "leftovers". They provided 37% of the scoring, 33% of the boards on the tourney team. Not bare... but key performers. "Berating"... funny term that's totally inaccurate and misused. WT gets credit for one key thing... tourney berth. My points about WT are either factual or pretty obvious to those who watch... recruiting has not improved... recruits leaving at a rate that's too high for a team tested 7-10 already in recruiting... player development/schemes not there, not followed or both... W/L record isn't significantly better in a far worse era of Pac12 play. So again, no defense of CR, nor hate of WT. But, dismissing one to "build" up the other has not only been biased, but largely inaccurate. Tinkle was left with an inexperienced cupboard, no starters, that averaged a total of 17 points a game under the previous coach. The top returning player Tinkle inherited had average all of 4 points a game under CR. All of those players, except for an injured N’Diaye, were gone in 2 years. With those inexperienced kids he managed 17 and 19 regular season wins his first two years. CR inherited 8 of the top 10 scorers the previous coach had. Latham Wallace, Calvin Haynes and Omari Johnson were 3 of the top 6 players for Coach John and CR had them for 3 full seasons. With all that returning experience, CR managed 13 and 14 regular season wins his first two seasons. You say that CR’s kids accounted for 37 per cent of the scoring for the tournament team, and that is accurate, but those kids had very little actual playing time under CR. I’d argue that In year 2 of Tinkle, CR recruits probably should have accounted for a heck of a lot more of the scoring if CR had left him much. By the way, in CR’s 2nd season the Beavs averaged 60.3 points a game, and 54 points of that was by Jay John players that had played under Jay John. CR dipped to 11 wins in year 3, but if he hadn’t had 3 of Coach John’s top 6 scorers playing for him it likely would have been much worse. On a year by year basis, the only year, so far, I think there could be a good argument that CR did a better job than WT was year 4 of his tenure. 21 wins was a good job. Too bad it didn’t continue.
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bill82
Freshman
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Post by bill82 on Feb 11, 2019 1:34:33 GMT -8
WT will be the coach next year, so comparing “accomplishments” seems premature. Also, this team is so erratic it is premature trying to use this year in any analysis. We could win out or lose out.
Next year will be WTs make or break year. I’m hoping new and old players not related to the coaches get a chance to take over the team. This team needs a floor leader and the presence of the coaches’ kids seems to thwart anyone else from taking control. There is a lot of emphasis, at least through team sponsored social media, on getting Stevie a three-point record and keeping TTs double-digit scoring streak alive. I hope we have a head strong leader in next year’s class that can distribute the ball with the goal of winning games and not pursuing individual accolades.
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Post by astro4519 on Feb 11, 2019 6:54:38 GMT -8
Post - after: subsequent: later. College football, basketball and baseball has a post season separate from the regular season. In basketball the NCAA differentiates the regular season from the post season. The conference tournament winner gets the automatic bid to the NCAA tournament not the regular season conference champ.
Pontificate - Express ones opinions in a way considered annoyingly pompous and dogmatic. It is up to each individual to decide who is pontificating and who is not.
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Post by Judge Smails on Feb 11, 2019 8:11:59 GMT -8
Uh, we got into the CBI tournament the year he's talking about (2009) for one reason only, and it wasn't because our 13 win team was screwed by the NCAA or NIT tournaments. It took those 5 CBI wins to get to .500. We got in again in 2010 with 14 wins. It wasn't until 2016 before they took another 14 win team again. Now that teams are turning down CBI invites regularly they are starting to offer more 14/15 win teams. You can pontificate all you want. The "whys" and "wherefores" do not matter. They are wins... they count on the season record according to every organization keeping coaching and school records. Again, like it or not CR not only had (3) 15+ win seasons, he had a 21 win season. Dislike of CR doesn't change facts. I think the point being made is that WT has turned down CBI invites that could have added to his win total. That's why it makes the comparison difficult. CR won 21 games, but he had 15 losses that year. Not exactly a great season.
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Post by atownbeaver on Feb 11, 2019 8:49:53 GMT -8
Oregon State last won the Pac-10 in 1990. In 1990, the Beavers jumped out to a 10-1 conference record. Since 1990, Oregon State's best 11-game conference start has been 7-4. Since 1990, no Oregon State team has started conference play 8-4. Oregon State is 15-8 overall. In the 29 years since 1990, the number of 15-win seasons (not including the 5-1 mark that Craig Robinson posted in the 2009 CBI) since 1990: Six. In Wayne Tinkle's five years, Oregon State has hit the mark in three. After 1990, Jim Anderson hit the mark once, Jay John hit the mark once, and Craig Robinson hit the mark once. Neither Eddie Payne nor Ritchie McKay ever posted a 15-win season.I hate to be THAT guy... but we are 7-4 when we should of been 8-3. losing by 23 at home to 11-9 mediocre Stanford is why WT keeps finding his seat warm, when otherwise he is having a great year by our standards. I like to try and be positive, but it is these missed opportunities against inferior teams that keep taking the luster off this season. We should be a minimum of +3 games this season from where we are right now. It is aggravating.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Feb 11, 2019 9:13:32 GMT -8
We are tied for second in the Pac-12, an accomplishment that some criticize Tinkle for because the league is weak. Just wondering, what does that say about the other nine coaches in the league whose teams are behind us in this "weak" league?
PS: Those "selfish" coach's kids are the top three in assists on the team, by a wide margin. I suspect if they were named Joe Jones, Bill Smith and Bob Smith we'd hear a lot less criticism from certain quarters.
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Post by Judge Smails on Feb 11, 2019 9:30:35 GMT -8
We are tied for second in the Pac-12, an accomplishment that some criticize Tinkle for because the league is weak. Just wondering, what does that say about the other nine coaches in the league whose teams are behind us in this "weak" league? PS: Those "selfish" coach's kids are the top three in assists on the team, by a wide margin. I suspect if they were named Joe Jones, Bill Smith and Bob Smith we'd hear a lot less criticism from certain quarters. Not if Dean Smith and KC Jones were our coaches.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Feb 11, 2019 10:36:09 GMT -8
Oregon State last won the Pac-10 in 1990. In 1990, the Beavers jumped out to a 10-1 conference record. Since 1990, Oregon State's best 11-game conference start has been 7-4. Since 1990, no Oregon State team has started conference play 8-4. Oregon State is 15-8 overall. In the 29 years since 1990, the number of 15-win seasons (not including the 5-1 mark that Craig Robinson posted in the 2009 CBI) since 1990: Six. In Wayne Tinkle's five years, Oregon State has hit the mark in three. After 1990, Jim Anderson hit the mark once, Jay John hit the mark once, and Craig Robinson hit the mark once. Neither Eddie Payne nor Ritchie McKay ever posted a 15-win season.I hate to be THAT guy... but we are 7-4 when we should of been 8-3. losing by 23 at home to 11-9 mediocre Stanford is why WT keeps finding his seat warm, when otherwise he is having a great year by our standards. I like to try and be positive, but it is these missed opportunities against inferior teams that keep taking the luster off this season. We should be a minimum of +3 games this season from where we are right now. It is aggravating. Frankly, as frustrating as it is, I'm glad the team is having missed opportunities versus no opportunities. As far as total wins go, if this team wins only one or two more, then goes on a tear in the CBI and finishes with 21 or 22 wins, I'll consider it somewhat of a disappointment. I can't say I'd prefer to win 3 or 4 more and lose in the first round of the NIT, but it kinda is a bigger achievement getting there. Fighting to be in the top 2-4 of a 12 conference team is not altogether a bad thing considering the last 26/28 years. It's just frustrating when there are missed opportunities. One thing I will say, when you look at Coach Miller's record and Baseball coach Riley's record, it took 9-10 years each before they were consistently fighting for the top spot in the conference. I can't guarantee continuity is a guarantee of future success, but I'd hate to see another coaching search unless the program just tanks.
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Post by seastape on Feb 11, 2019 11:18:32 GMT -8
I'll say this about CT: unless the program completely tanks, I would like to see how he does without any coaches' sons on the team. They are our most talented, but I still wonder if there is such a thing as having too much family on a team that can result in other team members deciding to leave or potential team members deciding not to come. Or even just having a negative effect on their development. It seems likely that it would be a turn off to be offered a scholarship at those positions and to know that there is a coach's son in front of you. I don't know if the situation has caused others to leave or not come here, but I am curious.
I would like to see how Tinkle does with a clean slate, no family members. Will it lead to at least the same and hopefully better level of recruits? Will it lead to better development? I want to see how Lucas, Franklin and Hunt develop in the next few years.
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Post by cageybeav on Feb 11, 2019 11:40:13 GMT -8
The way I see it, if Wilky had prefaced his original post with "Regular Season Wins" all of you wouldn't have needed 2 pages to bitch and moan.
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Post by nabeav on Feb 11, 2019 11:49:49 GMT -8
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Post by beaverstever on Feb 11, 2019 11:57:20 GMT -8
For some perspective here, OSU hasn't had a winning Pac-12 season since 1990, and there have been some very weak conferences during that time as well. Even getting 3 more conference wins (which quite honestly looks like an uphill battle at this point) would be an accomplishment of epic proportions at OSU in this millennium. Reminder that we've only had two non-losing conference season since GP graduated, and WT owns one of those along with Jimmy. Sorry, but the seat isn't hot for WT. He could lose ever game the rest of the season and I still can't see a change being made. IMO, he's far more likely to move on himself in a year or two than be fired. www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/oregon-state/
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Post by OSUprof on Feb 11, 2019 11:59:30 GMT -8
I'm not afraid to admit that I liked Craig Robinson. It's too bad that he could not have led OSU to more wins in his time here but he did some good things for our program during his tenure.
I like Wayne Tinkle too - like Robinson, he's a good man and has done some good things for our program. Let's leave the CBI out of the conversation. What's disappointing for most fans is that Tinkle is only 32-51 through 83 conference games at OSU.
Craig Robinson was 29-54 through his first 83 conference games at OSU.
Bottom line: Tinkle has won 3 more conference games than Robinson over nearly 5 seasons in a conference that's arguably weaker now. Robinson was dismissed after 6 seasons. Tinkle has a chance to get to the NIT this year, and maybe next with the current talent. Anything short of those 2 appearances gives pretty bad optics for the program in retaining one coach over the other past a 6th season.
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