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Post by spudbeaver on Feb 2, 2019 17:03:48 GMT -8
I was raised watching Ralph's teams and coached by someone similar so I have an expectation of play. I'm glad for all the 'first time' since's for sure but know we will not achieve prolonged success if we don't do the little things and those little things take effort and it's the coaches job to make sure they happen. Basketball is not played like “Ralph’s teams” anymore. Like it or not. Now, get off my lawn! Are you the real Gilligan? You’re posting like you are. Nah. Gilligan was happy go lucky.
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Post by gnawitall on Feb 2, 2019 17:06:19 GMT -8
Basketball is not played like “Ralph’s teams” anymore. Like it or not. Now, get off my lawn! Are you the real Gilligan? You’re posting like you are. Nah. Gilligan was happy go lucky. I'm eeyore when I'm sober.
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Post by spudbeaver on Feb 2, 2019 17:07:47 GMT -8
Nah. Gilligan was happy go lucky. I'm eeyore when I'm sober. Maybe Gilligan had s stash of Rum!
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Post by gnawitall on Feb 2, 2019 17:09:16 GMT -8
I'm eeyore when I'm sober. Maybe Gilligan had s stasah of Rum! arrrrrgh
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Post by seastape on Feb 2, 2019 18:24:42 GMT -8
This post aged really poorly... Anybody can look at any game and pull out a lowlight. Others can look at an overall body of work. Calling out Tres in a 31 point game when he dominated on the whole makes this look ridiculous. OSU just landed back to back road wins for the first time in? damned if I know. I has to be a REAL long time. When he scores 31 and leads us to a win against a quality opponent I'll be impressed. Still glad we won. Who peed in your Corn Flakes this morning?
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Post by albanianbeav on Feb 2, 2019 19:34:09 GMT -8
Tres is an amazing athlete and deserves to be in the poty (no pun intended) discussions. He is doing (and has been for two years now) his thing being the primary focus of the d. I get frustrated with his momentary lapses, specifically with TOs (6 is too many for him), d, and blocking out, but to hear someone say he is not impressive surprised me. He is almost averaging a double/double.
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Post by osubeaver2018 on Feb 2, 2019 19:57:29 GMT -8
Tres is an amazing athlete and deserves to be in the poty (no pun intended) discussions. He is doing (and has been for two years now) his thing being the primary focus of the d. I get frustrated with his momentary lapses, specifically with TOs (6 is too many for him), d, and blocking out, but to hear someone say he is not impressive surprised me. He is almost averaging a double/double. I'm alright with a couple of the TOs he had today. They were him seeing space and making a pass that if completed would have been an easy bucket. One that comes to mind was a quick bullet pass to G that he just wasn't able to get to, but had no one within 10 feet of him if completed. There were a few that were a little sloppy that I would like to see cleaned up but when you're handling the ball as much as he is some turnovers are going to happen.
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Post by sonomabeav on Feb 2, 2019 20:13:57 GMT -8
Interesting that no one is mentioning he's playing on a severely sprained ankle - only missed one game but is clearly playing at about 80%.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Feb 2, 2019 21:35:34 GMT -8
I think that ankle is coming around finally, that stuff shot later in the second half was quick and kind of long actually. He’s played amazingly well for someone with a bad ankle. I do wonder how his legs are holding up, his father mentioned they were getting sore in other areas due to the change in his movement.
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Post by Mike84 on Feb 2, 2019 21:55:40 GMT -8
I've haven't watched games for years because the play is so poor. Usually follow on twitter here and there because I always want them to win. So I decided to give the game a couple minutes at the start of the second half. Within a few minutes Tres throws a lazy pass into the post and from about 15 feet for a TO. Then on the other end he trails his player around and if a Utah player, who had the ball at the high post, had any game could have thrown it to the block to his player for a lay in but Utah is someone else's problem. Then a few moments later Tres is defending as part of double team on the low block and makes an incredibly poor effort in keeping the offensive player from splitting the double team and laying it in. This almost has to be a joke. You admit to not watching the team "for years", which means you've missed watching this season's road win over the ducks (which came down to crunch time), the home sweep of the LA schools, and the road win against Colorado (which came down to crunch time), along with 10 other wins. But then something made you decide to watch today, and you mention only what everybody who watched the WHOLE game admits was the worst stretch for Tres and the team. You don't mention the part where (according to coach Tinkle in the post-game interview) Tres took over to show that the Beaver could win this game. You don't mention the rest of the game nor the fact that the Beavers just beat Utah, who has a winning record in conference, nor that Tres (on a bad ankle) not only had 31 points but THE key shot of the game in crunch time. You had to know that you were cherry picking the worst of what was a good game and that you were ignoring the fact that the Beaver could not be where they are this season if Tinkle was a bad coach or Tres a bad player. I'm going to assume you were just playing devil's advocate in order to get others to tell you why you were wrong. Nothing else makes much sense.
Go Beavs! Mike '84
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Post by beaverstever on Feb 2, 2019 22:07:25 GMT -8
I was raised watching Ralph's teams and coached by someone similar so I have an expectation of play. I'm glad for all the 'first time' since's for sure but know we will not achieve prolonged success if we don't do the little things and those little things take effort and it's the coaches job to make sure they happen. Basketball is not played like “Ralph’s teams” anymore. Like it or not. Now, get off my lawn! Are you the real Gilligan? You’re posting like you are. Nobody play's Ralph's style anymore because it won't work. Excerpt from: www.coachdunlap.com/uploads/1/4/5/9/14592008/ralph_miller_system.pdfAccording to Coach Miller, "the chief weapon for all offensive attacks is the pass." The definition for perfect offense is, "pass the ball to an open teammate, and then, cut or revolve all other players to new open positions. Continue doing so until a desired shot is obtained." Except now, 'continue' stops at 30s. Ralph's teams would run an offense to precision until the found a defensive breakdown. Late in Ralph's career, a 45s shot clock as added, and went to 30 well after he was done. GP could break down defenses at any time, which rescued Ralph's offense from the 45s shot clock change. What happens now is if the defense doesn't have a break-down within 30s, someone has to puke something up 1:1. The (very boring) evolution of the NBA to isolation basketball was built on the premise that passing does 2 things: 1 - it often means the ball is going to an inferior offensive player, and 2, it's always a risk of a TO. Since the best players in the NBA were effectively indefensible 1:1, it statistically made more sense for them to just not pass. The rockets winning with Harden dominating the ball is exactly that - him trying to score on his own is statistically a higher overall opportunity for success than anything else his teammates can do. I understand it's not pretty to watch, and can totally understand it making the game unwatchable to you. However, the idea that the lack of success is due to not playing like RM's teams is silly - the'd be terrible if we played that style with today's rules.
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Post by gnawitall on Feb 2, 2019 23:19:39 GMT -8
Basketball is not played like “Ralph’s teams” anymore. Like it or not. Now, get off my lawn! Are you the real Gilligan? You’re posting like you are. Nobody play's Ralph's style anymore because it won't work. Excerpt from: www.coachdunlap.com/uploads/1/4/5/9/14592008/ralph_miller_system.pdfAccording to Coach Miller, "the chief weapon for all offensive attacks is the pass." The definition for perfect offense is, "pass the ball to an open teammate, and then, cut or revolve all other players to new open positions. Continue doing so until a desired shot is obtained." Except now, 'continue' stops at 30s. Ralph's teams would run an offense to precision until the found a defensive breakdown. Late in Ralph's career, a 45s shot clock as added, and went to 30 well after he was done. GP could break down defenses at any time, which rescued Ralph's offense from the 45s shot clock change. What happens now is if the defense doesn't have a break-down within 30s, someone has to puke something up 1:1. The (very boring) evolution of the NBA to isolation basketball was built on the premise that passing does 2 things: 1 - it often means the ball is going to an inferior offensive player, and 2, it's always a risk of a TO. Since the best players in the NBA were effectively indefensible 1:1, it statistically made more sense for them to just not pass. The rockets winning with Harden dominating the ball is exactly that - him trying to score on his own is statistically a higher overall opportunity for success than anything else his teammates can do. I understand it's not pretty to watch, and can totally understand it making the game unwatchable to you. However, the idea that the lack of success is due to not playing like RM's teams is silly - the'd be terrible if we played that style with today's rules. I poorly identified what I meant. My emphasis has to do with fundamentals. If a team loses by say 8 points that's three buckets. One more block out, one less turnover, one more assist and the game could have been turned. When I was growing up many players were afraid to make mistakes but the pendulum has swung the other way to where the attitude is 'don't worry about mistakes, just play' IMO. Considering both extremes, I would think the ultimate attempt with any player would be to get them to play with the right balance of fear and freedom. It's all conjecture but it seems our 'stars' need a little fear of Ralph in them
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Post by gnawitall on Feb 2, 2019 23:38:17 GMT -8
I've haven't watched games for years because the play is so poor. Usually follow on twitter here and there because I always want them to win. So I decided to give the game a couple minutes at the start of the second half. Within a few minutes Tres throws a lazy pass into the post and from about 15 feet for a TO. Then on the other end he trails his player around and if a Utah player, who had the ball at the high post, had any game could have thrown it to the block to his player for a lay in but Utah is someone else's problem. Then a few moments later Tres is defending as part of double team on the low block and makes an incredibly poor effort in keeping the offensive player from splitting the double team and laying it in. This almost has to be a joke. You admit to not watching the team "for years", which means you've missed watching this season's road win over the ducks (which came down to crunch time), the home sweep of the LA schools, and the road win against Colorado (which came down to crunch time), along with 10 other wins. But then something made you decide to watch today, and you mention only what everybody who watched the WHOLE game admits was the worst stretch for Tres and the team. You don't mention the part where (according to coach Tinkle in the post-game interview) Tres took over to show that the Beaver could win this game. You don't mention the rest of the game nor the fact that the Beavers just beat Utah, who has a winning record in conference, nor that Tres (on a bad ankle) not only had 31 points but THE key shot of the game in crunch time. You had to know that you were cherry picking the worst of what was a good game and that you were ignoring the fact that the Beaver could not be where they are this season if Tinkle was a bad coach or Tres a bad player. I'm going to assume you were just playing devil's advocate in order to get others to tell you why you were wrong. Nothing else makes much sense.
Go Beavs! Mike '84
As I've said before I'm a battered fan. It's not absolute when I say I don't watch because I will tune in here and there. I admit the years have worn me down. You mentioned that I missed the duck victory. The one that came down to crunch time. The one they were trying to cough up. My Beaver nervous system couldn't have taken it. The reason I started the 'complainers thread' was because I didn't want to jump in on the game thread and be a downer. I'm glad they won and I believe Tres is a good player. I just believe that if we are ever to be relevant and by that I mean a fairly consistent bubble or tourney team we are going to have to become more fundamentally sound and I believe that is on the coach. I had the same problem with CR.
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Post by seastape on Feb 3, 2019 2:35:47 GMT -8
Basketball is not played like “Ralph’s teams” anymore. Like it or not. Now, get off my lawn! Are you the real Gilligan? You’re posting like you are. Nobody play's Ralph's style anymore because it won't work. Excerpt from: www.coachdunlap.com/uploads/1/4/5/9/14592008/ralph_miller_system.pdfAccording to Coach Miller, "the chief weapon for all offensive attacks is the pass." The definition for perfect offense is, "pass the ball to an open teammate, and then, cut or revolve all other players to new open positions. Continue doing so until a desired shot is obtained." Except now, 'continue' stops at 30s. Ralph's teams would run an offense to precision until the found a defensive breakdown. Late in Ralph's career, a 45s shot clock as added, and went to 30 well after he was done. GP could break down defenses at any time, which rescued Ralph's offense from the 45s shot clock change. What happens now is if the defense doesn't have a break-down within 30s, someone has to puke something up 1:1. The (very boring) evolution of the NBA to isolation basketball was built on the premise that passing does 2 things: 1 - it often means the ball is going to an inferior offensive player, and 2, it's always a risk of a TO. Since the best players in the NBA were effectively indefensible 1:1, it statistically made more sense for them to just not pass. The rockets winning with Harden dominating the ball is exactly that - him trying to score on his own is statistically a higher overall opportunity for success than anything else his teammates can do. I understand it's not pretty to watch, and can totally understand it making the game unwatchable to you. However, the idea that the lack of success is due to not playing like RM's teams is silly - the'd be terrible if we played that style with today's rules. I don't know if I agree with you or whether your analysis is correct, but I do like the analysis.
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Post by beavs6 on Feb 3, 2019 6:39:48 GMT -8
Nobody play's Ralph's style anymore because it won't work. Excerpt from: www.coachdunlap.com/uploads/1/4/5/9/14592008/ralph_miller_system.pdfAccording to Coach Miller, "the chief weapon for all offensive attacks is the pass." The definition for perfect offense is, "pass the ball to an open teammate, and then, cut or revolve all other players to new open positions. Continue doing so until a desired shot is obtained." Except now, 'continue' stops at 30s. Ralph's teams would run an offense to precision until the found a defensive breakdown. Late in Ralph's career, a 45s shot clock as added, and went to 30 well after he was done. GP could break down defenses at any time, which rescued Ralph's offense from the 45s shot clock change. What happens now is if the defense doesn't have a break-down within 30s, someone has to puke something up 1:1. The (very boring) evolution of the NBA to isolation basketball was built on the premise that passing does 2 things: 1 - it often means the ball is going to an inferior offensive player, and 2, it's always a risk of a TO. Since the best players in the NBA were effectively indefensible 1:1, it statistically made more sense for them to just not pass. The rockets winning with Harden dominating the ball is exactly that - him trying to score on his own is statistically a higher overall opportunity for success than anything else his teammates can do. I understand it's not pretty to watch, and can totally understand it making the game unwatchable to you. However, the idea that the lack of success is due to not playing like RM's teams is silly - the'd be terrible if we played that style with today's rules. I don't know if I agree with you or whether your analysis is correct, but I do like the analysis. Dito
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