Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2019 10:40:13 GMT -8
Hardly. Luton has just never passed the eyeball test for me, from the time he took his first game snaps until the end of last season. Some of that is out of his control (recovering from major injury), but being a competitive P5 QB just seems out of his range. Honestly, I wouldn't have expected CJSmith to name anyone as #1 before spring ball even started. I would think that would be a competitive field well into fall ball. Well, I’ll reserve judgement until the season gets going. I thought McMaryion clearly deserved the #1 spot going into Luton’s first season based on 3M’s performance in the spring game. It was a little closer match in the fall scrimmage but by then it was pretty clear who was GA’s favorite.... and that was on GA, not Luton. Luton had a pretty decent season, all things considered, this last season. Coming off the back injury, new coaches, new offensive scheme, playing on a bad ankle realistically 6 of the 8 games he played, and taking a little over half of the snaps last season, out of all the quarterbacks playing in the Pac 12, he finished in the top 7-10 in the league in nearly every statistical category. Was it a great season? No. Did he do a lot of the things a competitive QB should be doing? In my opinion, yes. Your opinion obviously differs, but I don’t think it’s time to write the kid off. Perhaps your definition of “competitive” is different than mine. Do I think he’s going to be a first day draft pick? Probably not. Do I think he can statistically compete with most P5 quarterbacks and lead the team to a bowl if the Beavers have a defense this coming season? Yes. <iframe width="19.58000000000004" height="13.06000000000006" style="position: absolute; width: 19.58000000000004px; height: 13.06000000000006px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_55681704" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="19.58000000000004" height="13.06000000000006" style="position: absolute; width: 19.58px; height: 13.06px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 923px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_61692949" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="19.58000000000004" height="13.06000000000006" style="position: absolute; width: 19.58px; height: 13.06px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 584px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_99439739" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="19.58000000000004" height="13.06000000000006" style="position: absolute; width: 19.58px; height: 13.06px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 923px; top: 584px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_6291919" scrolling="no"></iframe> quarterback and rb are not the problem. Improvement needs to come with the line (pass blocking particular) and mostly with receiving. Beavs need to find players fast enough to separate and find players who can consistently get open AND catch the ball. And find a TE who can block without holding and be a playmaker downfield. (Sorry Quitoriano, i still think you could be all conference at tackle). Hodgins needs to improve his route running and make himself a better target and Bradford needs to work on his hands. It's been a while since Beavs had a gamebreaker pass catcher. That is a huge need.
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EOBeav
Freshman
Posts: 499
Grad Year: 1989, 2002
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Post by EOBeav on Jan 16, 2019 16:03:40 GMT -8
Well, I’ll reserve judgement until the season gets going. I thought McMaryion clearly deserved the #1 spot going into Luton’s first season based on 3M’s performance in the spring game. It was a little closer match in the fall scrimmage but by then it was pretty clear who was GA’s favorite.... and that was on GA, not Luton. I tried not to bring up McMaryion, but I'm glad you did. When Luton replaced 3M, I was mad about it but told myself that I'd reconsider if Luton could prove to me that he belonged. Except for the big arm, I just haven't seen that he does. No question, there were times he was lights out in the air. That's a big time arm. I'm guessing there's one statistic that he was at or near the bottom: Rushing. He had several games with negative yards running with the football. Translation: Opposing defenses figured out early that he can pass but can't run. One question that I've asked myself is he would be even a #2 at any other Pac 12 school? We've been banking on a guy that wouldn't, in my opinion. I can live with most of that. When I think about it, my definition of 'competitive' is if he has all the physical and mental tools to be the team leader, and give them the ability to rally the team to coming back when the chips are down. Or, not blowing a lead when we have one. We need more than a one dimensional quarterback.
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Post by Judge Smails on Jan 16, 2019 16:12:22 GMT -8
Well, I’ll reserve judgement until the season gets going. I thought McMaryion clearly deserved the #1 spot going into Luton’s first season based on 3M’s performance in the spring game. It was a little closer match in the fall scrimmage but by then it was pretty clear who was GA’s favorite.... and that was on GA, not Luton. I tried not to bring up McMaryion, but I'm glad you did. When Luton replaced 3M, I was mad about it but told myself that I'd reconsider if Luton could prove to me that he belonged. Except for the big arm, I just haven't seen that he does. No question, there were times he was lights out in the air. That's a big time arm. I'm guessing there's one statistic that he was at or near the bottom: Rushing. He had several games with negative yards running with the football. Translation: Opposing defenses figured out early that he can pass but can't run. One question that I've asked myself is he would be even a #2 at any other Pac 12 school? We've been banking on a guy that wouldn't, in my opinion. I can live with most of that. When I think about it, my definition of 'competitive' is if he has all the physical and mental tools to be the team leader, and give them the ability to rally the team to coming back when the chips are down. Or, not blowing a lead when we have one. We need more than a one dimensional quarterback.We certainly wouldn't want another Sean Mannion, Derek Anderson or Sean Canfield. That would be awful.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Jan 16, 2019 16:48:03 GMT -8
Blount was arguably much more mobile than Luton but still had a negative loss per carry despite fleeing the pocket far too often.
Canfield, Anderson and Mannion all had negative yards per carry every season they played. Mannion only managed fewer yards loss per carry than Luton 1 of the 4 seasons he was a starter. His career average was a yard higher loss per carry than Luton's was this year.
Our pass blocking is not quite good enough to fully protect any QB, much less one with a bum ankle, just yet.
How many leads did Luton blow anyways? I can't remember any. He only threw 4 interceptions on the season, Anderson, Canfield and Mannion all were among the leaders in the country in interceptions their first seasons as starters. I do remember opposing offenses running roughshod through our young defense.
All in good time.
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EOBeav
Freshman
Posts: 499
Grad Year: 1989, 2002
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Post by EOBeav on Jan 16, 2019 16:56:55 GMT -8
We certainly wouldn't want another Sean Mannion, Derek Anderson or Sean Canfield. That would be awful. If you can honestly compare Luton's complete skill set to ANY of those three, you're watching a much different QB than I am.
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Post by Judge Smails on Jan 16, 2019 19:13:14 GMT -8
We certainly wouldn't want another Sean Mannion, Derek Anderson or Sean Canfield. That would be awful. If you can honestly compare Luton's complete skill set to ANY of those three, you're watching a much different QB than I am. All 3 of those QB’s struggled early in their careers. Luton could very well make a big jump his 2nd year in the same system.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Jan 16, 2019 19:47:33 GMT -8
People have such short memories. Matt Moore is another one who completed less than 60%, ran for negative yardage and was an interception leader (19) in his first season at OSU, and he had 2 years in at UCLA before he got here. Luton's stats actually look crazy good against his first year here.
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Post by spudbeaver on Jan 16, 2019 19:48:30 GMT -8
We certainly wouldn't want another Sean Mannion, Derek Anderson or Sean Canfield. That would be awful. If you can honestly compare Luton's complete skill set to ANY of those three, you're watching a much different QB than I am. Many of us are, in case you haven’t figured that out.
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Post by orangeattack on Jan 16, 2019 21:08:13 GMT -8
Gunderson was an interesting prospect. Big frame, leader, charismatic, smart kid.. funky sidearm throwing motion. No problem, you can work on mechanics at the next level. And it was almost like it ruined him to change his throwing motion. He was a guy being asked to step into an offense geared around a big armed passer, but he couldn't throw the out route and he couldn't stretch the field vertically. So the offense was hamstrung, and we didn't have a particularly strong OL for him to lean on either. He shouldn't be compared to Gebbia. Fine. Remember Jared Jones? Parade All-American QB that washed out before playing for the Beavs. My point was not that he was Gunderson. It was that Gebbia is being over-hyped prior to playing a down. Jared Jones, the MLB prospect who was signed to a baseball contract but showed up for one spring ball to compete with DA and then left? lol I kid. I get what you are saying, I do. But Gebbia is a 4-star who had a falling out with the new staff that didn't recruit him, and he was a can't-miss 4-star QB that was recruited by a coach who ran a west coast scheme and ended up in a different offense. That sounds like Matt Moore's path, if we are hell-bent on making a comparison.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Jan 16, 2019 23:01:59 GMT -8
Gunderson was an interesting prospect. Big frame, leader, charismatic, smart kid.. funky sidearm throwing motion. No problem, you can work on mechanics at the next level. And it was almost like it ruined him to change his throwing motion. He was a guy being asked to step into an offense geared around a big armed passer, but he couldn't throw the out route and he couldn't stretch the field vertically. So the offense was hamstrung, and we didn't have a particularly strong OL for him to lean on either. He shouldn't be compared to Gebbia. Fine. Remember Jared Jones? Parade All-American QB that washed out before playing for the Beavs. My point was not that he was Gunderson. It was that Gebbia is being over-hyped prior to playing a down. I'd forgotten about Jones. Interesting that he left FSU and was going to hitch up with the Beavers, and Bowden was supposedly very hot to trot for DA coming out of high school. Erickson landed both, if temporarily. Probably burned Bowden's britches a bit.
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Post by Judge Smails on Jan 17, 2019 5:49:28 GMT -8
Fine. Remember Jared Jones? Parade All-American QB that washed out before playing for the Beavs. My point was not that he was Gunderson. It was that Gebbia is being over-hyped prior to playing a down. Jared Jones, the MLB prospect who was signed to a baseball contract but showed up for one spring ball to compete with DA and then left? lol I kid. I get what you are saying, I do. But Gebbia is a 4-star who had a falling out with the new staff that didn't recruit him, and he was a can't-miss 4-star QB that was recruited by a coach who ran a west coast scheme and ended up in a different offense. That sounds like Matt Moore's path, if we are hell-bent on making a comparison. No such thing as “can’t miss” QB’s. Look at how many 4 stars have washed out for the ucks. And as mentioned above, Matt Moore was terrible his 1st year.
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Post by orangeattack on Jan 18, 2019 11:02:15 GMT -8
Jared Jones, the MLB prospect who was signed to a baseball contract but showed up for one spring ball to compete with DA and then left? lol I kid. I get what you are saying, I do. But Gebbia is a 4-star who had a falling out with the new staff that didn't recruit him, and he was a can't-miss 4-star QB that was recruited by a coach who ran a west coast scheme and ended up in a different offense. That sounds like Matt Moore's path, if we are hell-bent on making a comparison. No such thing as “can’t miss” QB’s. Look at how many 4 stars have washed out for the ucks. And as mentioned above, Matt Moore was terrible his 1st year. That was kind of my point. Who knows how it could turn out, and it isn't even guaranteed that he will be good right away. You don't need to remind me not to get overly excited about a highly touted kid - I've been around this recruiting game for 20 years now, I don't get too excited any which way until I see the spark on the (practice) field against D1 competition.
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EOBeav
Freshman
Posts: 499
Grad Year: 1989, 2002
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Post by EOBeav on Jan 19, 2019 17:32:16 GMT -8
No such thing as “can’t miss” QB’s. Look at how many 4 stars have washed out for the ucks. And as mentioned above, Matt Moore was terrible his 1st year. I'm certainly not anointing Gebbia as a can't-miss QB recruit. It's just very difficult to get excited about the upcoming season if Luton remains the starter.
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Post by Judge Smails on Jan 19, 2019 17:37:54 GMT -8
No such thing as “can’t miss” QB’s. Look at how many 4 stars have washed out for the ucks. And as mentioned above, Matt Moore was terrible his 1st year. I'm certainly not anointing Gebbia as a can't-miss QB recruit. It's just very difficult to get excited about the upcoming season if Luton remains the starter. So there’s no chance he could improve?
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EOBeav
Freshman
Posts: 499
Grad Year: 1989, 2002
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Post by EOBeav on Jan 19, 2019 17:51:27 GMT -8
So there’s no chance he could improve? I think we've seen his ceiling.
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