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Post by jenbeav on Dec 25, 2018 19:45:59 GMT -8
I like others have been frustrated at times this season. But i still like what Tinkle is doing, yes players do dumb things there kids. I have coached for awhile kids sports and i can say i know how frustrated parents can get and myself as a coach. I can say exactly how to beat the press but kids do what they do. I like the flow of our offense for most part seems we are less 1 on 1. I really liked his 1-2-2 defense it slowed teams down alot. We are not as Athletic as a lot of teams and it shows. But we have some great players we are missing a point guard Ethan is great player and 1 of my favorite but he isnt a point guard. We have had a stream of bad luck with Malcolm leaving, Bruce leaving and McLaughlin transfering. So we are working with what we got. But Tres is a phenomenal player and is good for a double double a night which is nice! Kelly is a force and Ethan is a great player. I think Stevie is an ok player but not phenomenal sorry not Steph Curry not good enough dribbler or shooter. Hollins very athletic but not great shooter right now still only sophomore. We have some recruits especially some point guards that can take us to another level. I am still a Tinkle guy and lets see rest of this year. But still excited for the boys! So many love Ruecks girls teams and i do as well but they have plenty of tournovers or silly plays as well. We are in good hands with Rueck and Tinkle! Go Beavs
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jbjam
Freshman
Posts: 127
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Post by jbjam on Dec 25, 2018 22:00:50 GMT -8
We are in good hands with Rueck! a̶n̶d̶ ̶T̶i̶n̶k̶l̶e̶! Go Beavs Fixed it for you.  |
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Post by beavsinorange on Dec 25, 2018 22:54:00 GMT -8
I like others have been frustrated at times this season. But i still like what Tinkle is doing, yes players do dumb things there kids. I have coached for awhile kids sports and i can say i know how frustrated parents can get and myself as a coach. I can say exactly how to beat the press but kids do what they do. I like the flow of our offense for most part seems we are less 1 on 1. I really liked his 1-2-2 defense it slowed teams down alot. We are not as Athletic as a lot of teams and it shows. But we have some great players we are missing a point guard Ethan is great player and 1 of my favorite but he isnt a point guard. We have had a stream of bad luck with Malcolm leaving, Bruce leaving and McLaughlin transfering. So we are working with what we got. But Tres is a phenomenal player and is good for a double double a night which is nice! Kelly is a force and Ethan is a great player. I think Stevie is an ok player but not phenomenal sorry not Steph Curry not good enough dribbler or shooter. Hollins very athletic but not great shooter right now still only sophomore. We have some recruits especially some point guards that can take us to another level. I am still a Tinkle guy and lets see rest of this year. But still excited for the boys! So many love Ruecks girls teams and i do as well but they have plenty of tournovers or silly plays as well. We are in good hands with Rueck and Tinkle! Go Beavs Great Post Jenbeav. I think Tinkle has done a good job at OSU, which is a difficult place to win. |
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bill82
Freshman
OSU's 10,157th Best Donor
Posts: 971 
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Post by bill82 on Dec 26, 2018 5:15:59 GMT -8
Coaches need to build some momentum in a program or players, recruits, fans and boosters stop listening. Tinkle had his shot but he was not able to recruit the type of player that can lead a team on and off the court. He has a lot of skilled individuals that have not melded into a competitive team. I've seen a lot of teams over the years come on late in the season and surprise everyone, but those teams have a floor leader that takes charge. I don't think we have that player on the roster. I hope I'm wrong. So it looks like a 7th-10th place finish this year and another missed post-season. We likely get a winning season due to the weak non-conference schedule and Tinkle gets another year because we cannot afford a buyout or the loss of Tres and Ethan. If he hits the lottery with next year's recruits and finds a floor general he could turn things around. Tinkle did mention one of the recruits was vocal on the court. Hope springs eternal. If we head into next season with Ethan at the point, not his natural position, I imagine Barnes will start recruiting a new coach.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2018 7:12:26 GMT -8
Coaches need to build some momentum in a program or players, recruits, fans and boosters stop listening. Tinkle had his shot but he was not able to recruit the type of player that can lead a team on and off the court. He has a lot of skilled individuals that have not melded into a competitive team. I've seen a lot of teams over the years come on late in the season and surprise everyone, but those teams have a floor leader that takes charge. I don't think we have that player on the roster. I hope I'm wrong. So it looks like a 7th-10th place finish this year and another missed post-season. We likely get a winning season due to the weak non-conference schedule and Tinkle gets another year because we cannot afford a buyout or the loss of Tres and Ethan. If he hits the lottery with next year's recruits and finds a floor general he could turn things around. Tinkle did mention one of the recruits was vocal on the court. Hope springs eternal. If we head into next season with Ethan at the point, not his natural position, I imagine Barnes will start recruiting a new coach. lack of athleticism hurts this team in some critical ways. Not being able to break a press with speed leads to panic passes and turnovers. Not having the quicks to stay with penetrators or close out on 3s means allowing points at the end of shot clocks after defensive effort is expended. The rebounding has been ok despite lack of quick jumpers. The rebounding has been decent to good on this team. That will help in conference if it continues. This team looks like it's good for 7 pac 12 wins. That shouldn't make anybody happy, but it is what it is. |
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Post by nabeav on Dec 26, 2018 8:28:24 GMT -8
I think Stevie is an ok player but not phenomenal sorry not Steph Curry If this is the standard we are gonna hold Stevie to, no wonder so many are disappointed. Offensively, Stevie is not a problem. He’ll have poor games, but as others have noted he has hit more than his share of big shots over the years for OSU. Until OSU plays better perimeter D, we are limited in how good we can be. |
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Post by shelby on Dec 26, 2018 10:28:24 GMT -8
I get terribly frustrated with the 'spacing' and the problems that creates when either penetrating or looking for clear passing lanes. This, to me, has been the driver between turnovers and taking bad shots. We don't really seem to have a great offensive scheme when we come down the court with the ball. Watching K State handle their offensive sets was eye opening. They created clean opportunities every time down the floor.
We still seem to resort to a half court 5 on 5 game of street ball.
Oh well - at least we are to that 'competitive' stage.... we just get too easy to defend when we are not able to run an effective offense.
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Post by mbabeav on Dec 26, 2018 12:10:16 GMT -8
Watching their last game, having a great defensive big man in the middle really improved their overall defense. Kelley is a work in progress, but when he is in the middle, he totally disrupts the opponent's inside game and allows our perimeter defense to push out a few more feet, which makes the three point shot a lot harder.
When he went out with foul trouble, we lacked a 5 that could intimidate anyone coming inside, people had to sag to help, and it went from a 14 point early lead trailing by halftime really fast. Hopefully G can return and give us a more effective rotation there.
And someone has to step up and think point-guard, be point-guard, instead of driving the middle for that 30% layup success rate against 4 people collapsing into the key. You'd think that enough teams have watched video of that little move to make said player aware that they know he is coming.
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Post by baseba1111 on Dec 26, 2018 12:27:02 GMT -8
Watching their last game, having a great defensive big man in the middle really improved their overall defense. Kelley is a work in progress, but when he is in the middle, he totally disrupts the opponent's inside game and allows our perimeter defense to push out a few more feet, which makes the three point shot a lot harder. When he went out with foul trouble, we lacked a 5 that could intimidate anyone coming inside, people had to sag to help, and it went from a 14 point early lead trailing by halftime really fast. Hopefully G can return and give us a more effective rotation there. And someone has to step up and think point-guard, be point-guard, instead of driving the middle for that 30% layup success rate against 4 people collapsing into the key. You'd think that enough teams have watched video of that little move to make said player aware that they know he is coming. KK will continue to get into foul trouble, not so much because of his poor decisions, but because of the poor exterior defense. There are just far too many drives into the paint that forces him to leave his space/man and come help. When that happens every other time down the court he's bound to draw fouls vs athletic smalls who can contort and slide to draw contact. 4+ block a game is great, but, most are in a help situation. At that rate OSU's poor defense just puts KK "at risk" of the whistle far too often. |
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Post by ochobeavo on Dec 26, 2018 13:11:12 GMT -8
Watching their last game, having a great defensive big man in the middle really improved their overall defense. Kelley is a work in progress, but when he is in the middle, he totally disrupts the opponent's inside game and allows our perimeter defense to push out a few more feet, which makes the three point shot a lot harder. When he went out with foul trouble, we lacked a 5 that could intimidate anyone coming inside, people had to sag to help, and it went from a 14 point early lead trailing by halftime really fast. Hopefully G can return and give us a more effective rotation there. And someone has to step up and think point-guard, be point-guard, instead of driving the middle for that 30% layup success rate against 4 people collapsing into the key. You'd think that enough teams have watched video of that little move to make said player aware that they know he is coming. There are just far too many drives into the paint that forces him to leave his space/man and come help. When that happens every other time down the court he's bound to draw fouls vs athletic smalls who can contort and slide to draw contact. 4+ block a game is great, but, most are in a help situation. At that rate OSU's poor defense just puts KK "at risk" of the whistle far too often. I feel like I've been saying this for 3 years now re: our bigs in general! It's good to know I'm not a Pack of 1, even if it's 1111. (I kidd! I kidd! Happy Holidays!). There was a sequence last game where IIRC it was Reichle, TT, ET and ST on the floor (w/KK inside)- it was just so ridiculously easy for Kent to get in the key by doing things like DRIBBLING. |
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osubeaver2018
Sophomore
Posts: 1,341
Grad Year: 2018
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Post by osubeaver2018 on Dec 26, 2018 15:06:37 GMT -8
Coaches need to build some momentum in a program or players, recruits, fans and boosters stop listening. Tinkle had his shot but he was not able to recruit the type of player that can lead a team on and off the court. He has a lot of skilled individuals that have not melded into a competitive team. I've seen a lot of teams over the years come on late in the season and surprise everyone, but those teams have a floor leader that takes charge. I don't think we have that player on the roster. I hope I'm wrong. So it looks like a 7th-10th place finish this year and another missed post-season. We likely get a winning season due to the weak non-conference schedule and Tinkle gets another year because we cannot afford a buyout or the loss of Tres and Ethan. If he hits the lottery with next year's recruits and finds a floor general he could turn things around. Tinkle did mention one of the recruits was vocal on the court. Hope springs eternal. If we head into next season with Ethan at the point, not his natural position, I imagine Barnes will start recruiting a new coach. lack of athleticism hurts this team in some critical ways. Not being able to break a press with speed leads to panic passes and turnovers. Not having the quicks to stay with penetrators or close out on 3s means allowing points at the end of shot clocks after defensive effort is expended. The rebounding has been ok despite lack of quick jumpers. The rebounding has been decent to good on this team. That will help in conference if it continues. This team looks like it's good for 7 pac 12 wins. That shouldn't make anybody happy, but it is what it is. I don't really feel we lack athleticism in all parts of this team. We are smaller yes, but KK, Alfred, ET, and Tres are all very good athletes IMO. I agree we don't have a player that is able to break the press with speed (maybe Vernon can be that guy, he seems quick but doesn't see the floor as much) but I also don't see us completely starved of athleticism. I would like to see a bigger presence at the 4 (or seeing G and KK play at the same time against a team like uo with Bol Bol or teams with better bigs) and ST and ZR are just not quick enough on the perimeter when it comes to closing out shooters, but they have made up for it by getting hands in passing lanes and forcing turnovers and in ZR's case by making some hustle plays.
I thought through the first 7 games in the 6-1 start that I saw improvement in some of the deficiencies from last season, and the last 4 games it seems we are seeing those issues again. Maybe it is because ST has gone cold and struggled in the last 4, maybe he needs to sit, or maybe we have reverted back to the same offense from last year but earlier this year I saw better ball movement and shot selection than I had seen since GPII was still here. I'm not giving up yet even though the last 4 games have been extremely frustrating to watch. |
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Post by seastape on Dec 26, 2018 15:28:42 GMT -8
I think Stevie is an ok player but not phenomenal sorry not Steph Curry If this is the standard we are gonna hold Stevie to, no wonder so many are disappointed. Offensively, Stevie is not a problem. He’ll have poor games, but as others have noted he has hit more than his share of big shots over the years for OSU. Until OSU plays better perimeter D, we are limited in how good we can be. That's been a big problem for a long time now, going back several coaches. |
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2ndGenBeaver
Sophomore
Posts: 1,741
Grad Year: 1991 (MS/CS) 1999 (PhD/CS)
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Post by 2ndGenBeaver on Dec 26, 2018 15:34:41 GMT -8
I agree - KK gets left on an island trying to help on a driver who has invariably (easily) gotten by his perimeter man....
We have weak perimeter D, which shows in our defensive 3 pt percentage (only Cal and Utah are worse in the Pac-12).
The problem is not that we expect Sr. Thompson to be Steph Curry, it is that he attempts Steph Curry-esque moves more frequently than advisable.
As jenbeaver pointed out, our woes at point guard for several years running now have made things worse.
We can hope the reinforcements coming next year are the answer to our problems, but I have been hoping for a couple of decades now....
What worries me the most is addressable issues that don't seem to be getting addressed. How hard is it to find a body and block out on a defensive rebound? Yet one of our seniors was found standing around on multiple possessions in a tight game. How hard is it to establish good spacing while the ball handler is walking the ball up the court? How hard is it to zip passes to recipients coming to meet the ball instead of dropping off slow-moving bounce passes? How hard is it to eschew the NBA-range off balance three early in the possession? How hard is it to call a play for a "hot hand" instead of someone going 1 for 20 or whatever the ghastly outing was this last game? Why was the 1-for-20 person out there when you have a youngster shooting quite well from the arc? Why does our offense involve soooo much dribbling around at the perimeter and so little passing? The trajectory of this current team bothers me. I see talented individuals not magnifying their talents by playing team ball, nor weaknesses being compensated for with very much creativity......that to me is coaching. This set of experienced coaches ought to be able to wring more improvement from this team, or at least make manifest the consequences to players if they don't execute to plan. Either *this* is the plan (scary) or there is a set of players who don't have to worry about negative consequences to departing from plan (also scary). I think we have a team talented enough to be middle-of-the-road Pac-12 (especially this year), but I am skeptical we can be .500 in the league, and suspect we will be just flirting with a .500 record overall. And so I devote all of my energy (and $$$s) to WBB, where good coaching and player improvement is at least obvious.
Go Beavers!
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Post by Judge Smails on Dec 26, 2018 15:45:44 GMT -8
I agree - KK gets left on an island trying to help on a driver who has invariably (easily) gotten by his perimeter man.... We have weak perimeter D, which shows in our defensive 3 pt percentage (only Cal and Utah are worse in the Pac-12). The problem is not that we expect Sr. Thompson to be Steph Curry, it is that he attempts Steph Curry-esque moves more frequently than advisable. As jenbeaver pointed out, our woes at point guard for several years running now have made things worse. We can hope the reinforcements coming next year are the answer to our problems, but I have been hoping for a couple of decades now.... What worries me the most is addressable issues that don't seem to be getting addressed. How hard is it to find a body and block out on a defensive rebound? Yet one of our seniors was found standing around on multiple possessions in a tight game. How hard is it to establish good spacing while the ball handler is walking the ball up the court? How hard is it to zip passes to recipients coming to meet the ball instead of dropping off slow-moving bounce passes? How hard is it to eschew the NBA-range off balance three early in the possession? How hard is it to call a play for a "hot hand" instead of someone going 1 for 20 or whatever the ghastly outing was this last game? Why was the 1-for-20 person out there when you have a youngster shooting quite well from the arc? Why does our offense involve soooo much dribbling around at the perimeter and so little passing? The trajectory of this current team bothers me. I see talented individuals not magnifying their talents by playing team ball, nor weaknesses being compensated for with very much creativity......that to me is coaching. This set of experienced coaches ought to be able to wring more improvement from this team, or at least make manifest the consequences to players if they don't execute to plan. Either *this* is the plan (scary) or there is a set of players who don't have to worry about negative consequences to departing from plan (also scary). I think we have a team talented enough to be middle-of-the-road Pac-12 (especially this year), but I am skeptical we can be .500 in the league, and suspect we will be just flirting with a .500 record overall. And so I devote all of my energy (and $$$s) to WBB, where good coaching and player improvement is at least obvious. Go Beavers! I’ve seen this mentioned several times. The last play was not called for ST, it was called for Tres. Tres was covered and had to give it up to ST. Our main issue is not skill. Tres and the Thompson’s are very skilled players. However, all three are lacking in the quickness department, which hurts them on both ends of the floor. That is why WT switched to zone D over the past few years to try and mask the lack of quickness. It is also why when we went to man against Kent St, you saw Alfred on their best player. He is the only one that is close to quick enough to guard an above average guard. Vernon has some quickness, but he’s lacking in the height department and can be shot over. |
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2ndGenBeaver
Sophomore
Posts: 1,741
Grad Year: 1991 (MS/CS) 1999 (PhD/CS)
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Post by 2ndGenBeaver on Dec 26, 2018 15:53:07 GMT -8
I agree - KK gets left on an island trying to help on a driver who has invariably (easily) gotten by his perimeter man.... We have weak perimeter D, which shows in our defensive 3 pt percentage (only Cal and Utah are worse in the Pac-12). The problem is not that we expect Sr. Thompson to be Steph Curry, it is that he attempts Steph Curry-esque moves more frequently than advisable. As jenbeaver pointed out, our woes at point guard for several years running now have made things worse. We can hope the reinforcements coming next year are the answer to our problems, but I have been hoping for a couple of decades now.... What worries me the most is addressable issues that don't seem to be getting addressed. How hard is it to find a body and block out on a defensive rebound? Yet one of our seniors was found standing around on multiple possessions in a tight game. How hard is it to establish good spacing while the ball handler is walking the ball up the court? How hard is it to zip passes to recipients coming to meet the ball instead of dropping off slow-moving bounce passes? How hard is it to eschew the NBA-range off balance three early in the possession? How hard is it to call a play for a "hot hand" instead of someone going 1 for 20 or whatever the ghastly outing was this last game? Why was the 1-for-20 person out there when you have a youngster shooting quite well from the arc? Why does our offense involve soooo much dribbling around at the perimeter and so little passing? The trajectory of this current team bothers me. I see talented individuals not magnifying their talents by playing team ball, nor weaknesses being compensated for with very much creativity......that to me is coaching. This set of experienced coaches ought to be able to wring more improvement from this team, or at least make manifest the consequences to players if they don't execute to plan. Either *this* is the plan (scary) or there is a set of players who don't have to worry about negative consequences to departing from plan (also scary). I think we have a team talented enough to be middle-of-the-road Pac-12 (especially this year), but I am skeptical we can be .500 in the league, and suspect we will be just flirting with a .500 record overall. And so I devote all of my energy (and $$$s) to WBB, where good coaching and player improvement is at least obvious. Go Beavers! I’ve seen this mentioned several times. The last play was not called for ST, it was called for Tres. Tres was covered and had to give it up to ST. Our main issue is not skill. Tres and the Thompson’s are very skilled players. However, all three are lacking in the quickness department, which hurts them on both ends of the floor. That is why WT switched to zone D over the past few years to try and mask the lack of quickness. It is also why when we went to man against Kent St, you saw Alfred on their best player. He is the only one that is close to quick enough to guard an above average guard. Vernon has some quickness, but he’s lacking in the height department and can be shot over. Glad to hear the last play was for TT and not ST. ST played 39 minutes in that game - perhaps sitting him for a minute or two more at some point might have been helpful? Especially given his (as demonstrated in a couple TV replays) lack of engagement on blocking out/rebounding? I know most of the time shooters shoot their way out of a slump, but sometimes sitting can do the shooter some good as well.......And the last possession is not a great time to hope your 1-for-16 shooter makes his way out of his slump....... Go Beavers! |
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