2ndGenBeaver
Sophomore
Posts: 1,743 
Grad Year: 1991 (MS/CS) 1999 (PhD/CS)
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Post by 2ndGenBeaver on Oct 31, 2018 21:19:51 GMT -8
When I said "coaches kids ball hoggery" it was more short hand for "Thompson, Thompson and Tinkle" than their familial affiliation with the head coach and assistant coach. That said, as a long time Beaver fan and potentially biased observer with no demonstrated basketball expertise, I am of the opinion that the "coaches kids" are treated differently on this team. As a result, the players also (again, in my biased, humble no-basis in demonstrated basketball skill set opinion) behave slightly differently. Ask Pat Casey, about as good of a coach as there is in the coaching business, if he did not experience some issues around having his kids on the team. (Note - I took many undergraduate math classes from my math professor father at Montana Tech. I was banned from office hours or class-related home discussions in an attempt by him to remove any advantages I might otherwise gain, so my stance here might also be colored by that experience). What I saw at the exhibition was our bigs flashing open and not getting an entry pass by a ball handler. As some statistical analysis in this thread has pointed out, the odds of the non-entry passer being a coaches kid is inordinately high. What I saw at the exhibition was the ball handler dribbling around semi-aimlessly, and then either driving with the shot clock running down, or taking a 3, reminiscent of seasons past, and seemingly ignoring the presence of the aforementioned 7 footers. Since the opponent was NAIA Div II Montana Tech, this strategy met with significant success that I doubt can be replicated against our normal opponents. As some statistical analysis in this thread has pointed out, the odds of the dribble driver/shot taker being a coaches kid is inordinately high. I also saw (again, opinionated, biased, unskilled me) a predilection amongst those three to pass among themselves. (insert statistical comment here as well). That all would have been well and good, but what bugged me most was even against a lowly NAIA Div II team, I did not detect the execution of very many set plays. Pointing to the scoreboard at an exhibition game against an over matched opponent is folly, let's just hope trying to extrapolate whether we have cured some ills that have dogged us these past few seasons from a sample size of 1 is also folly. I am also spoiled watching WBB - comparing our MBB team to a top-10 and fantastically well coached WBB team is likely at this stage also folly. The season is upon us, the proof, as they say, will be in the pudding soon enough. Go Beavers! I saw it a bit differently, with the bigs struggling to get open. WT was getting pretty fired up yelling for Kelley & Wilson to post. Not too surprising for freshman. Also, say what you will, but Montana was playing scrappy d. If you were seeing flashes of posts being open, we will certainly benefit from developing our pgs, as we all know. Your narrative is also very plausible - to wit, I found this factoid on the Tech web site: Statistically, the men’s basketball team finished the 2017-18 season as one of the top defensive teams in the country. They were first in the Frontier Conference in turnover margin (#3 nationally), turnovers forced, and fewest turnovers committed. They finished second in scoring defense (#13 nationally), three-point field goals allowed, and three-point field goal margin, and third in defensive field goal percentage, steals per game (#23 nationally), and assist to turnover ratio (#9 nationally). So clearly, well-coached, and quite scrappy as you noted. I think most of the shortcomings I saw on the floor are eminently correctable, let's just hope they get corrected, regardless of the root cause..... Go Beavers! |
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Post by baseba1111 on Oct 31, 2018 21:35:44 GMT -8
I saw it a bit differently, with the bigs struggling to get open. WT was getting pretty fired up yelling for Kelley & Wilson to post. Not too surprising for freshman. Also, say what you will, but Montana was playing scrappy d. If you were seeing flashes of posts being open, we will certainly benefit from developing our pgs, as we all know. Your narrative is also very plausible - to wit, I found this factoid on the Tech web site: Statistically, the men’s basketball team finished the 2017-18 season as one of the top defensive teams in the country. They were first in the Frontier Conference in turnover margin (#3 nationally), turnovers forced, and fewest turnovers committed. They finished second in scoring defense (#13 nationally), three-point field goals allowed, and three-point field goal margin, and third in defensive field goal percentage, steals per game (#23 nationally), and assist to turnover ratio (#9 nationally). So clearly, well-coached, and quite scrappy as you noted. I think most of the shortcomings I saw on the floor are eminently correctable, let's just hope they get corrected, regardless of the root cause..... Go Beavers! I think that's what we all need to see. Improvement... on those things that are typically "correctable". A good teacher/coach at the D1 level should be able to get their team all on the same page. As someone mentioned previously, the proof will be in the pudding. |
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Post by beaverinohio on Nov 1, 2018 6:44:15 GMT -8
I didn't see the exhibition, but regarding not getting the ball into the post I will say that I've found that the average fan over estimates how "open" post players are. Yes, a post player might be "open," but is he also actually in position to score given his skill set? If not, too often what you end up with is a bad shot or a turnover while trying to pass back out or players collapsing down on him. And the place from which a post player can actually score is different for each player. And that is something that takes time for other players to learn, especially with all the new post players on the team.
Having said all that, I agree offensive efficiency has to improve and the long scoring droughts that were a problem last year need to be shortened. I would like to see the Beavers utilize the high post more -- whether it be an actual post player or one of the wings flashing in there. Seems that to much of the offense is initiated from the wings. Flashing players up to the high post opens up both sides of the court and I think would lessen the stand-around-and-dribbling that happens too much.
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Post by atownbeaver on Nov 1, 2018 11:30:12 GMT -8
Your narrative is also very plausible - to wit, I found this factoid on the Tech web site: Statistically, the men’s basketball team finished the 2017-18 season as one of the top defensive teams in the country. They were first in the Frontier Conference in turnover margin (#3 nationally), turnovers forced, and fewest turnovers committed. They finished second in scoring defense (#13 nationally), three-point field goals allowed, and three-point field goal margin, and third in defensive field goal percentage, steals per game (#23 nationally), and assist to turnover ratio (#9 nationally). So clearly, well-coached, and quite scrappy as you noted. I think most of the shortcomings I saw on the floor are eminently correctable, let's just hope they get corrected, regardless of the root cause..... Go Beavers! I think that's what we all need to see. Improvement... on those things that are typically "correctable". A good teacher/coach at the D1 level should be able to get their team all on the same page. As someone mentioned previously, the proof will be in the pudding. I have generally been "Pro Tinkle" but i will say he is flat out of excuses if this isn't a good year. Like I have said, unless Tres and Stevie both are lost for the full season in the first game, I cannot see a viable excuse as to why this team is not at the 20 win threshold. He just needs to be there at this point, with this team. The way I see it, he has two solid potential first team All Pac quality players (Tres, Stevie) and 2 honorable mention quality (Hollins, Ethan) among his starting 5. Big G is at the point he should be rising up to be the stud his body was built to be. Kylor Kelly is a instant mismatch on the floor, and Zach Riechle looks to be a quality 6th man. He has a fairly complete roster, injuries aren't an issue, there is a mix of experience, we have 3 upper classman starters with multiple years of playing time experience... So while I have seen reasons in the past, I see no reason in the now. He just needs to be winning this year. That is it. We need to have a winning Pac-12 record and be at 20 wins, or I have to say, Tinkle's seat should be pretty darn hot. |
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Post by beaverinohio on Nov 1, 2018 11:41:21 GMT -8
I think that's what we all need to see. Improvement... on those things that are typically "correctable". A good teacher/coach at the D1 level should be able to get their team all on the same page. As someone mentioned previously, the proof will be in the pudding. I have generally been "Pro Tinkle" but i will say he is flat out of excuses if this isn't a good year. Like I have said, unless Tres and Stevie both are lost for the full season in the first game, I cannot see a viable excuse as to why this team is not at the 20 win threshold. He just needs to be there at this point, with this team. The way I see it, he has two solid potential first team All Pac quality players (Tres, Stevie) and 2 honorable mention quality (Hollins, Ethan) among his starting 5. Big G is at the point he should be rising up to be the stud his body was built to be. Kylor Kelly is a instant mismatch on the floor, and Zach Riechle looks to be a quality 6th man. He has a fairly complete roster, injuries aren't an issue, there is a mix of experience, we have 3 upper classman starters with multiple years of playing time experience... So while I have seen reasons in the past, I see no reason in the now. He just needs to be winning this year. That is it. We need to have a winning Pac-12 record and be at 20 wins, or I have to say, Tinkle's seat should be pretty darn hot. I fall pretty much into the Pro Tinkle category too, and I agree with your assessment. If one of those two freshmen guards (or the two combined) can give us 6-8 minutes of fairly productive play then I think they'll make it. They really aren't very deep if that doesn't happen with the open scholarship they're carrying. On the plus side, Tres, Stevie, Ethan, Hollins and Riechle do offer flexibility position-wise. If Washington can give us 4 or 5 good minutes come conference play that would really increase flexibility and depth. |
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Post by TheGlove on Nov 1, 2018 19:09:00 GMT -8
Your narrative is also very plausible - to wit, I found this factoid on the Tech web site: Statistically, the men’s basketball team finished the 2017-18 season as one of the top defensive teams in the country. They were first in the Frontier Conference in turnover margin (#3 nationally), turnovers forced, and fewest turnovers committed. They finished second in scoring defense (#13 nationally), three-point field goals allowed, and three-point field goal margin, and third in defensive field goal percentage, steals per game (#23 nationally), and assist to turnover ratio (#9 nationally). So clearly, well-coached, and quite scrappy as you noted. I think most of the shortcomings I saw on the floor are eminently correctable, let's just hope they get corrected, regardless of the root cause..... Go Beavers! I think that's what we all need to see. Improvement... on those things that are typically "correctable". A good teacher/coach at the D1 level should be able to get their team all on the same page. As someone mentioned previously, the proof will be in the pudding. Not a fan of pudding. |
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